| Source | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruhh71nqzeY |
|---|---|
| Readwise URL | https://read.readwise.io/read/01kv42yeejxw7s8cd7j05yha8f |
| Readwise ID | 01kv42yeejxw7s8cd7j05yha8f |
| Date | 2025-11-14 |
| Author | App Masters |
| Category | video |
| Cover image | https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ruhh71nqzeY/sddefault.jpg?v=69145545 |
[music] [music] [music] What is up app nation? It is Steve P. Young, founder of appmasters.com, and welcome to our weekly Friday live streams. All right, we’re trying something a little bit earlier because the US went back an hour. We’re going to
try to do it a little bit earlier. See how it goes. Let me know if you prefer this time or my 9:00 a.m. which allows me to sleep in a little bit more. But today, we’re going to answer all your questions. So, if you got a question for me and you can ask me anything, just leave a comment below and we’ll get to all of it. But, we’re going to get to that right now. Let’s go.
Yo, H. Was that a longer one? I like it, man. I felt like that was a little bit longer than usual. That was perfect. Okay, let me send out this tweet. Ask me anything. Okay. Boom. Perfect. All right, we have some questions from our Am I live? Okay. Where are all the comments? All right. Where are you guys?
What’s up? Usually I have a bunch of people saying hi. Okay. Thank you, Miguel. You’re making me feel lonely. All right. [clears throat] All right. Well, I guess people are just waking up just like me. All right. Let me get into the slides that H prepared for us. These were questions submitted from those in our newsletter audience. And so, we’re going to do that. Thank you, Sebast, you woke up early, too. All right, let’s get into this. Yan says, "Hey Steve, without a
third-party MMP or AT prompt and relying only on Facebook iOS SDK, we can roughly estimate installs from meta ads. However, the free trial data is highly inaccurate. Currently, we only optimize ads for installs, not for free trials. What steps can we take to improve this?" So, Yan, like I don’t know why you’re not asking the AT prompt. That might be one thing to just do because a lot of people are doing it already and I think consumers are getting used to it. But I
think the the ultimate thing is if you’re not getting the results you want, really figure out targeting because we’ve seen both of it work, right? Sometimes you’ll you’ll hear others say, “Hey, Advantage Plus broad targeting, let Facebook do its thing.” And that’s what I really I really feel like that’s the right way to go. So, I would test that ultimately. And then when you’re optimizing for installs, like honestly, what I would do is just test which ones,
which ads are getting the best hook rates, the best click-through rates, and then eventually getting you the optimal installs, but you got to move to free trials eventually. And so, we are doing this with one of our clients where we’re doing a broad advantage plus. We’re seeing like a $3 cost per install. it is actually catered to parents, but we’re getting good results on that. And so what I would say is add the AT prompt unless there’s some better reason that you’re not doing it, do it. And then the
Facebook SDK is all you really need to get it going. So most people just do all the indies that I’ve talked to that are running, you know, spending six figures on Meta, they just really rely on the the Meta SDK. So that’s how I would do it. And usually what we’ve seen when we’ve optimized for installs is the trials and the the revenues just don’t match up. And so I’m really making a big bet with one of our apps and just being like budget. Let’s just put it to
Advantage Plus broad. Right now we have it on a trial campaign and we’re just putting $300 to $500. the I want to take a moment right here because you know a lot of people see the topline numbers on Meta like you’ll see your competitors being like a 100red 200,000 and a lot of times guys they’re just breaking even and I’ve worked with clients that are like unprofitable frankly because they raise some money but anyways what I’m trying to say is Meta takes a lot of
time takes a lot of patience takes a lot of budget it is a platform that I feel like you know we talked about marketing trends for 2026. It’s going to be something that I was doing more of in 2025 and something definitely more of I’m going to do focus more on on 2026 because it is the right platform. But you’re going to have to be patient and you’re going to have to be be able to afford and so this may knock off a lot of indies, but you may you have to be
able to afford to pretty much lose some money. I mean, I’ve heard from I’ve heard stories from people who’ve, you know, spent millions of th millions of dollars inefficiently just to finally get it through breakthrough. And some of our clients have taken and we haven’t run their meta campaigns, but there was a client that we were working with, it took them eight months to get meta, right? Right. And if you I talked to a lot of people, sometimes it just takes months of tinkering, tinkering, tinkering with it. And a lot of times with indies, you know, we try for a month or two and we just stop instead of
just like fully pushing through. And as I’m talking about this, you know, this is what we saw in my business, right? Like it wasn’t until 15 months that I finally felt like I was breaking through and like, oh, I was on to something. So that’s what I felt like when I first started my business at Masters. It took me like 15 months to finally be like, okay, I have a breakthrough now. So, okay. Yeah, I’ll get to this. R2, let’s try like this.
Too big. Too big. All right. R2earware [clears throat] says, “What’s the new trends app marketer should know about in 2026?” You know, artware, I think it’s AI and using AI to help you get make smarter decisions. And then I think it’s really just meta ads. You know, for me, I don’t look for too many new trends because honestly, like how many new trends actually occur throughout our journey, right? I’ve been doing this since 2011 and there’s been reskinning. It’s come
and gone. You know, ASO with a lot of different tactics coming, you know, like for me, I’m like ASO is extremely extremely hard these days. And so, I think it’s tried and true methods. It’s going to be meta. It’s going to be Tik Tok. Those are the big platforms. A Apple Search Ads, ASO, Meta, Tik Tok, and maybe Google, especially if you’re on Android. But that’s it, man. It’s pretty simple. It’s not that much harder. You know, I feel like business is pretty simple. And the more you try
to chase trends, the more you just end up being like it’s it’s going to come and go, right? And so AI is here to stay. We all feel it. We all believe it. But I think it’s the triedand-true methods that are going to get you far. You know, here’s what I say. Many people have scaled their apps to six figures a month, seven figures a month, MR and it’s been just purely meta. So yeah. Oh, and the new trend I would say localization, man. Like that’s what I’m thinking about. Stop thinking about just the US, UK, all that stuff.
There is going to be there’s a lot of people that I’ve talked to that have done very well in other countries and I want to start highlighting more of those stories for you guys. But that would be the other trend. Just start thinking about localization. All right, Rosen has a funny question. Steve, my question is, you said in your live stream you would tell your email subscribers a secret tactic so Apple doesn’t catch on. What is it? Hey, you’re going to have to remind me what I said. But Rosen, maybe if you find the
time stamp for me, let me know. But I think, you know, for me, there’s a few things that are working that I want to make sure we keep relatively quiet because I know, you know, the our platform’s growing and so once we share it publicly, especially on YouTube, people tend to follow it and then becomes not working anymore. And so I think it’s sort of like my way of being like, let’s be com sort of a little bit private on this. So Rosen, I forget what I said, but reach out to me because I’ll
let you know. All right. Johnny says, “I see that Indie App Santa is now available on Android.” Thank you. Yes, it is. And we are trying to prioritize getting it back on back up on iOS as well. How does it work? As far as I know, Google does not allow a price of zero. Is the average number of downloads similar to iOS? Is Google okay with it? So, yeah. Number one, you have to do a price drop on Android because Google does not allow you to go zero. This is why I’m so frustrated by Apple because
they allow us to go to zero and maybe Rosen there was a another I I’ve tested a new way of doing app advice campaigns without getting warnings from Apple. I think this is the right way to go. So that’s another thing that may not want to share publicly but I will share with you guys. The So right here with Google it does have to be a price drop. Just keep that in mind. The average number of downloads are very small. You know, I don’t honestly I just don’t think Google is a good platform. It was something my
team wanted to do just to be on both platforms, but we haven’t seen a huge amount of downloads just from these price drops on Android. And we’re spending money to drive downloads for our indie app, Santa. We’re running Google ads on Android super easy and we’re getting really good installs, but the the clients are not seeing a great number of downloads for Android, unfortunately. I you know, so right now I wouldn’t say if you want to try it,
try it. But I would say like that’s why we have it way more affordable for Android because it just the results just aren’t as there as we want. Is Google okay with it? So far, yes. I think Google is a little bit more relaxed when it comes to these things. You know, as I was studying Apple, Apple and Spotify had a huge fight. And so I think, you know, like Apple seems to be something that is they’ve always been someone that’s more controlling than Google. And
so I’ve seen other apps like this in the App Santa where they’ve been on Google for a long time and but it just unfortunately Google’s just not a better platform for these type of things as well. So, yeah, it’s kind of like Google it, go ahead. It’s not going to do that well kind of thing. All right, Louise says, “Hi, Steve. Have you seen any cases in which age ratings such as 18 plus affects visibility?” Not really, Louise, but you know, when you have to do 18 plus, sometimes you’re going after
keywords that are like shadowbanned. And so, if you search for that particular keyword, there’s going to be no autofill results, right? And so that’s the only thing you got to worry about. But I haven’t seen anything around decreased visibility. In fact, like one of our clients that we’ve been working with for a few years now, I mean, he does an 18 plus and they do pretty well with his 18 plus campaign with app. All right. Lakeside Trades. Steve, any
insights into running meta ads and getting attribution working? Struggling a lot with getting anything besides app install campaigns working. Yeah, I mean Lakeside that’s the problem, right? I think with app installs you have to test. So a couple of things I’ll I’ll say on this front. Number one, here’s what we’ve done in the past. Sometimes if you just want app installs, we’ll target the Philippines because with app install campaigns, what we’re trying to do is figure out which creatives are going to win out, right? Especially in a
tri start trial campaign. So, we’ll target the Philippines first just to test the creatives and we can test it more cheaply because the cost per installs are going to be a lot cheaper. And then we started what we did with another client was we then start took those same creatives and put them in the US just to see if they would win too. We were selfish. We wanted to see if the data would hold up. If it’s a onetoone uh what’s the what’s the word I’m looking for? Correlation, right? If it wins in the Philippines, will it win in
the US? The answer is yes, it did. They So the ones that did win in the Philippines won in the US as well. And so what you can do is take those winning creatives and then start a if a if you can’t do a trial, you have to think through like what is the me middle ground. I would start doing trials. So here’s one thing that I’ve been this is maybe something that I was not wanting to share publicly, but fudge it’s just us, right? [laughter] So, one of the things I was thinking was
on advantage plus, if you do advantage plus broad targeting on meta, you can do a deep link and that deep link, it’s a little bit complicated, but that deep link would then only show a hard payw wall, right? Because you’re trying to send more signals to Meta. What I’ve learned from all the guests that we’ve had, Desmond, my friend Henry, from Ivy, from recipe, like really the
thing is, and this is what Desmond does, is hard payw wall, like really force the action. So you can do a deep link. One of the other things I’ve been thinking about, and this is just me revealing it all, but f it, man. This will make me stronger in the long run, right? H I can’t help it, man. It’s just, you know, I have this like
need to impress. Maybe I’m just Okay, so here’s another thing on meta. Let’s say you want to do a hard pay wall and you get a deep deep link. Okay, great. You have to do advantage plus. If you do any manual targeting, that deep link goes away and you can only do CPPs. All right, but that’s complicated. You’re like, Steve, that’s complicated. I don’t know how to do that. No problem. Here’s another option that I thought about. You got this onboarding. This is recipes onboarding. You go continue with Apple.
How old are you? No, don’t do it. All right. Moyo. [laughter] All right, I won’t do it then. But if you [laughter] Now like you got me, Moyo. But if they select Instagram or Facebook, right, essentially if they do everything else besides organic, you’re going to show them a hard pay wall. And that’s another strategy that you guys can use, right? So I if I pick through a friend search on app store or maybe even
Google search, I’m going to show them a soft payw wall. But if I do Tik Tok, Instagram, Facebook, I’m going to get a hard payw wall. So that would be one thing that you can start testing because what you need to do is send signals faster. And that is the in my opinion that’s the best way of doing it is just by sending signals faster. Do that. All right. Sorry I I couldn’t help myself. All right. Uh Zeb says, “Now that vibe coding is becoming more popular, are you seeing more people launching new apps?” Yeah,
absolutely, Zeb. And I think that’s why distribution is going to be the hardest thing and that’s why, you know, meta is something that I’m thinking about. It’s it’s the fact that, you know, more and more apps are coming into play and ASO is definitely becoming harder and harder and that might be the reason why Apple is starting to be more stringent in their app reviews. And so, yeah, I think vibe coding is great because finally us marketers are cool are the cool ones and not you developers. But at the same
time, it’s also sucks because it makes it more po makes there’s just too many things, too many apps out there right now. All right. What’s up, Luis? Hopefully, I answered your question right here. Luis John, good to see you. Adrien, good to see you. How’s that app coming, Adrien? You know, Kunal wants to invest. Did you DM him? Come on now. Barter better. I like [laughter] that. [clears throat] Uh, Arur. Cool.
Let’s see. All right. H, I don’t know. What else? What? What should we do? H, come on stage. Any questions? Anybody? You’re on mute. Okay, I can take it, but I’m just What’s up, 601? >> Let’s share some new prints for 2026. new trends, >> app marketings. Yeah, app marketing
trends for 2026. >> Yeah, I don’t I don’t think there’s going to be too much difference from what we’ve done. Like I don’t know if you know there’s no new platform. I think it’s just I I would stick with the basics. I would just see I mean honestly the new trends are just using AI whether it’s through video creation, >> right? We did that video with Lerna that just went up. It’s just we’ve seen our AI stuff do pretty well >> and and so it’s really just that AI
video creatives that allow you to scale creative production a lot faster and that’s primarily it. I mean I think the other trends I’d be looking at if I were to launch new apps today I’d just be looking in the AI space and that’s pretty much it. just figuring out how to, you know, a lot of people I think AI is we all like it because we’re all techy and we all are early adopters, but you know, >> I don’t think people have really figured out
like the the common person, my mom, my wife, they’re not going to be like, oh, you know, here’s how you can use chat GPT. No, they’re gonna. So, I think the the trends I would be looking for would be how do you use AI to solve real world problems >> like real life problems, not just the techy like create a photo from text, not like text to video, all this like it it’s more like how do you solve a real problem within AI that we’ve been leveraging humans to do? Yeah. Like can
we get that? And without giving away all the details, but that’s where you know our [clears throat] app has done pretty well. Our clients apps have done pretty well in that regard. >> So yeah, AI with some useful tools, some useful AI tools. Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yep. Uh and then Oh, I got a little tip. Thank you, I don’t even know what what to do with this tip that I’m looking at the comments just to see if there’s any
thing on there. I mean honestly like the the apps that we have done well the our apps the apps that we’re making money on are going to be the apps that have been distribution first. So I think it’s really figuring out >> with AI that trend how do you almost >> not build an app is what I would say right if you think about Arya they were able to get to 1 million ARR >> with just no code solutions that’s notion air table and type form and
that’s it and you can really leverage all these type forms the tallies is what we’ve been using to w build a web funnel Okay. And gets people [clears throat] to check out. And he while he thought he was going to build Ofur was going to build an app, he decided not to because he was able to really make his app grow >> or his product grow without an app. And so I think that’s that’s really [clears throat] >> the trend and that’s where AI comes in, right? Like we think AI and we’re like, oh, vibe code, all this stuff. And it’s like, no, why don’t you why don’t you
hack it? Hack it together. And that’s where all these Facebook questions come in. It’s like sometimes I’m like just run a web campaign because you can have that little pixel. It’s easier for Facebook to get that data. That’s why e-commerce is a little bit easy. It’s just margins are lower. >> And so you see all these people from e-commerce coming into the the app store because they know how they know how to run Facebook. It’s just they want better margins than e-commerce provides. And so they’re those are the ones that are
winning. So it’s distribution. Think about marketing first. Now that AI is making everything to create easier, marketing is the main thing we should be focused on. >> Yeah. Distribution first. Yeah. >> Distribution. Yeah. >> Y. >> Okay. Uh, Seb says, “Thank you, Seb. Have you seen useful app features using AI beyond the common embedded AI chat?” Yeah, I have, Seb. I have. I mean honestly like that’s why I was talking
about like the I don’t know maybe for you around just like analyzing the data or creating reports faster without giving you I know Z’s app but I’m not g I’m trying to say Z’s app either but like creating a report faster right but honestly like the features that have like our apps you know it’s you could think about it as a feature but it’s solving a real problem that people are searching ing for and people need and it’s a real life problem
like you would use it around your home around everything and using AI for that. So yeah, I think that’s that’s the one thing that I would say when I’m saying like it doesn’t necessarily have to be a feature. It could be a whole damn product for that too. >> All right. >> Yeah. >> Cool. Let me get into Let’s get into some app audits and then we’ll we’ll figure out we’ll go we’ll have some fun. >> Yep. >> Let’s do it.
Let’s do it. Let’s get into Hab’s app. All right. We’ve got Manny Kat. Huh. Okay. H Maybe the the early time is not working. So, we’ll go back to 9:00 a.m. [laughter] Good. I think everybody likes it. It’s a consistency. We can’t change it up too much unless we just go 8:00 all the time >> and that is it. Okay, we tried it. I like it. We’re trying new things. Okay, let’s let’s see. Hab and then Monata Monikata the contents of screenshots and
keywords. Oh yeah. Okay. So, choose progress over perfection. Build habits with rewards that matter. Yeah, I like that. Build a habit. Create a motivating reward. Define your rule. Encouraing G messages. I love it. This is great. >> Yeah, >> the keywords. Look, don’t even worry about the keywords. It’s way too competitive of a market for you. It you have too many habit trackers, too many
different things. This is why I’m like distribution first. Like if you’re just if I’m going to give you feedback on keywords, it just won’t make too big of a difference regardless. So, I’m not too worried about it. As long as you have the main keywords that you want to target, whether it’s habits tracker, habit tracker, or goal tracker, it doesn’t matter. You’re going to need to figure out a distribution model. And if you got something here, and I think that I would point to the Desmond episode as much as possible because he created Life
Reset and he picked a market that is sort of like yours, right? And it’s that’s it. It’s competitive. It’s about habits. It’s about transforming your life. It’s something that you can argue that, you know, meditation, all this stuff is in there, but like he’s he’s going after it and he’s using meta ads. And, you know, I love the story because for the first year, he was just creating organic Tik Tok and organic Instagram,
organic social media. He was get to he was able to get to 100,000 downloads. Um 100,000 downloads period. And then he’s like, you know what? I want a more scalable solution. And so he turned to Meta. And so he figured out something that worked, right, using just sheer sweat equity and then scaled it with Meta. And for us, it’s the same philosophy. It’s just I don’t know how to create social media content like Desmond does. What I do is ASO. And so what we’re trying to do is launch apps.
All the new apps we’re launching. Launch it using what we know best, ASO and keywords and all that stuff. Get it to a certain point. And once the numbers look good, try to scale it with meta. And that’s sort of my philosophy and my approach to building apps now is leveraging what I know best and then using meta to scale it even further. But I don’t think keywords are going to matter that much for you in this competitive space. >> Anything you want to add, age?
No, I think uh they can update the phone in the screenshots because it’s an old phone. Yeah, >> maybe >> that’s true. >> Yeah. >> Uh the other thing that we’ve seen is like just humans in screenshots like faces, photos tend to do pretty well. So think about that. But you can see Desmond looks really good compared to >> yours. Like I would just big like comp take this >> big bold text screenshots right up there and then go. >> Okay.
Maybe some motivating images or something, >> figures. your models. >> H, I’m gonna put you on mute. I can hear some a little bit of background noise from you. >> Okay, >> you can put yourself on mute. Thanks, bro. >> All right, remove all these things. All right, let’s get into his app. Hab, I think the icon needs some work, but who cares? Like, honestly, who cares? I’ve seen apps do well with the the ugliest icons.
Build habits build future. We’re good. I like that. Start your journey. What habit are you looking to improve? Meditation, I guess. Which reward motivate you to stick to a habit? Netflix, I guess. Okay. Define 10 minutes. When I complete a meditation, oh, I’ll watch Netflix for like 90 minutes, bro. Come on. Love.
Oh, dude. Man, mana. Okay, whatever. You got to show the pay wall during the onboarding. Yeah, you got to show the pay wall during the onboarding. Look here, we we work with one of these clients right now where it is a like a to-do list app, right? And what we’re what we’ve tested and we’ve seen good results with is increasing the price cuz look at $15 a year, you’re never you’re
hardly ever going to get to that level of scale. So, you have to try a higher pricing. So, we went from $20 a year to $40 a year. And I said, “Hey, we have to try this.” And we did the whole recipe on boarding, all that stuff. But if people want to invest in their future, the way I see it is look, $15 a year, you ain’t that committed, you ain’t that committed. Let’s see if you you are committed to $40 a year because at that price point, at least I can run some ads
on it. At a $15 price point, you can’t run ads on that, right? And I I have this spreadsheet that I’ll kind of pull up as well. And you can get this spreadsheet in our founders community, but not here. But you can you can just look at it and replicate it. Okay? It’s pretty easy to replicate right here. So here, I’ll blow this up for you guys. This is all you got to pay attention to. Let’s just say Whoops. Let’s just say this app makes gets
10,000. Doesn’t matter. That doesn’t matter. But let’s just say I’m going to give you a good trial activation rate. You got a hard pay wall and you got a good trial activation rate. And maybe you got 40%. Right there. Okay. You charging $15 a year. That puts you at a break even of revenue per download by nine 90 cents. That’s a dollar, right? And revenue per trial, which is your sort of your, you know, what you should be optimizing your meta
campaigns for. Cost per trial is $6. These are insanely low numbers. These are insanely low numbers. Now, obviously, if you go to 40 now, these become a little bit more reasonable. Right now, this might go down to 10 and this might go down to 35, but again, a lot better than that 90 cents that you have to optimize for. So, that’s why I would try to build products that I can charge, you know, for like $50, $60 because frankly, it’s a lot
easier to win. Like this was our app that we bought [clears throat] and these were the exact numbers we had. We charged $60 and this is what I was saying. We bought the app because it was only charging a onetime fee. And just by changing it to a hard payw wall with an onboarding and increasing it to $60 a year with no additional features. We took it from 1 to 2,000 to$10,000 just like that. And so those are the apps that I’m looking to acquire. you know, like, hey, you got an app that’s got good downloads, but you don’t know crap
about monetization, I’ll buy your app. [laughter] Those are the best apps to fill. So, that’s what I would be doing is really figuring out if you can charge more. And I think I think you can. And we’ve seen for that client that I was telling you guys about from going from 20 to 40, we’re seeing, look, the downloads are hard. That’s the hard part. But the revenues per download have gone a lot higher. All right.
Okay, sorry. I don’t know if I can say your name. Any good resource for learning distribution first? Just getting started. Want to figure out different pieces? I mean, this channel you’re here. I think honestly it’s ASO. It’s thinking about Reddit. It’s thinking about meta first, right? So, what what I would say is how I would answer that with you is what do you like doing? What do you think you’re good at? because it could be content marketing for me. You know, we and when I talk about distribution first, literally we did
that. We started the I started the podcast in 2013 on the side, right? It was nights and weekend nights and weekends. Built an audience, felt like, okay, there’s something here. And look, this is a story I like to tell. I was making 120,000 a year. This was back in 2013, okay? I was making about 120 125,000 a year. My first year on my own on App Masters, I made $90,000,
right? $90,000. So, I lost roughly about $30,000 by starting this my own company, going out on my own. But I had that distribution first. And so, when I was trying different things that first year, that 15 month, I went to an event by Pat Flynn and I was asking them, “Hey, help me sell more courses.” and they were giving me feedback and the one feedback I got it wasn’t Pat but the guy the other guy was like hey I don’t like growth hacking on your web page and I was like okay but literally this is why
you have to be careful who you take advice from literally somebody reached out to me and said I reached out to you because you have growth hacking why because one person was in my audience this was the person I was trying to target this random guy he’s not he’s not an app developer he’s probably not he’s not really in the tech base per se. He is an entrepreneur, but he’s not like technical and so he he didn’t get growth hacking. That’s because he’s from Australia and maybe they don’t talk about it there. I don’t know. But take
that, you know, with the result. But that was the whole distribution first content marketing for me. Long story short, content marketing was the thing that was my distribution first channel. And so through the audience, the audience kept telling me, Steve, help me with my app launch. So I killed everything else I was doing in the first year. and I just went all in on the agency, helped me with my app launch. And that’s when we went from 90 to 164 to 200 into, you know, a pretty good business right now. And so that’s why I
think like you rely on your strengths. What are you good at? Right? If you’re writing good at writing code, great. Study something else, right? Like study something else because that’s how talk to a lot of people. That’s it. That’s my advantage. Yeah. Okay. It’s meat B. With AI, we can test creatives much faster by generating highly realistic UGC style videos. Also really like your creative testing strategy. The idea of testing in cheaper countries first. Yeah, absolutely.
Sony says, “Hey Steve, have you seen any good studies of driving organic Tik Tok to mobile apps just by posting content?” Yeah, Sony. We so you know we have an a founders community where we meet twice a month on Zoom and one of my clients they were they’ve been able to reach about a 100,000 MR with organic Tik Tok and he broke down his entire process for it. Now what I will tell you Sony is it is a lot of freaking work. It is a lot of work. And so they’re starting to dabble into meta
ads because they understand it. But boy, there’s one person and that’s their whole job, finding influencers, posting content. And I have got, you know, somebody, a client of ours that we talked to that we helped them grow their revenues. We didn’t help them with the the Tik Tok strategy, but we helped them grow their 20x their revenues. It was simple. I just said do a hard pay wall and then boom, it was they were off and running. But they’ve done pretty well on Tik Tok organic. Look, I don’t understand it. And you just really have
to understand Tik Tok and the algorithm to make it work. All right. A the root co. No, no question for me. Just wanted to say hi to y’all. I love the community we’ve built. All right. Let’s get into the next app right here. This is Kodalingo. Cute. Kodalingo. Amomar says, "Hey, I want an overview of a user journey from the first app launch to the onboarding process and encountering the
pay walls. Any specific areas or concerns that you want feedback on? FYI, an offer dialogue will pop up on the second open." Okay, cool. I like it. So, this is an app where you can learn Flutter. There you go. Pretty easy. So, Amomar, you don’t need Kodalingo twice. I know you have learned Flutter twice. I mean, you might want to try something else around Flutter. I mean, if there Yeah. So, anyways, that’s what I would think through master Dart and Flutter. So, if there’s Dart,
then maybe use Dart as well instead of repeating your brand. Look, no offense to you, but your brand probably isn’t that strong. So, there’s no point in repeating your brand if there’s no there’s definitely no search volume for your brand. Okay. Interactive quizzes. Yeah. You know, one what I like this. So these type of screenshots I like what I I’m kind of using Desmond’s app but it’s like learn Flutter in 21 days. You know you ever seen those books and I started with those books by the way right like
it was uh Flutter for Dummies. I tried that Objective C for dummies. I was like what I still I must be lower than a dummy because I did not get that that book. I was like what are you talking about here? But I would I like the messaging where it’s like learn Flutter and Dart in 21 days. build your first app, right? And la build and f launch your first app in 21 days. So, give them a time frame to it might get them more engaged, but we’re just leveraging proven tactics of books, you know,
Flutter for Dummies or build an app in 21 days. There’s a lot of in 21 days type of stuff, too. Reset your life in 66 days. I love that type of messaging. So, I might test out that type of messaging there and especially on your onboarding. So, let’s take a look on your onboarding then. All right. See, who is that? The question with the AT
prompt. Just put ask the AT prompt. Who cares? Okay. Guide video. I don’t know what guide video means. So, think about that. Like video courses, maybe. Maybe that’s what you want to put in here. That would make more sense. Right. Next. Learn Dart and Flutter. Challenge yourself with quizzes. Okay, again this is like you wanna like why do they want to learn Flutter, right? So think about that Omar and think about like okay why am I here? You
know why why I lead with you know the place you go when you want to increase your downloads and revenues literally that’s all I hear from you guys. How do I increase how do I make more money? Right? Like how do I get more downloads? How do I make more money? Because I know that’s what you guys want. That’s what I say. I’m not saying like, hey, you know, learn app marketing, learn ASO because no, like this is all you want, right? So anyways, we don’t want to learn Dart and Flutter. Why do we want to learn it? We want to make more money. We want to build our first app. We want to build passive income with app. Like those are
the reasons why we want to learn something versus like learner an app. All right. Again, diverse questions, questions to make sure you know what you’re talking about, right? To fully cement the learnings. Review and analyze. So, right now, it’s a lot of features and I’m just going to be like, Simon, Kyle, it’s boring. These features are boring. Like, you’re not hyping me
up. There’s no emotional connection to this. So you need to make that emotional connection like land that first job, make more money, increase your diver, you know, like increase your skill set like you know build that first app to build passive income or like literally ask me why you want to learn and that gives you details on okay what kind of messaging I should use. There’s a reason why I say what I say on these live streams because I talk to a lot of people and that’s the questions I get. So, I’m the questions I’m getting are
the things I’m saying back to you guys. And so, it feels like I know what you’re thinking when you just really just told me. Okay. Oh, this seems like a revenue cap payw wall. Yeah, I don’t full-time access for just look horses are selling for so much more. Like, you have to increase the product here. There’s no way that you got to increase the price. Look, if I’m trying to learn something that’s education, that means I can I’m willing
to pay more because I’m trying to invest in myself, right? And so before I show a pay wall, I might be like, are you ready to invest in yourself? Right? Imagine yourself after Flutter. Where are you? It’s that bridge of where you are right now, where they want to be. And so you don’t you’re not doing a good job of that, Omar. But definitely you got to increase that price. I mean, you can charge probably $50. I don’t know what type of content. And hopefully you’re not ripping people off, but you can charge $50 for this. Like people, if
you want to learn Flutter, it’s going to be expensive because you’re going to make, you know, tens of thousands of dollars more if you can get it or that $50 investment is going to turn to an app. Like, how hard is it to make $50 from an app? Not that hard, frankly. So, it’s like, look, you’ll get it back in no time. And so, this is not a good payw wall, not good pricing at all. You need to increase that pricing. And yeah, what I would do here, yeah, I just would increase the pricing as much as possible. Okay, I’ll
allow it. Dart syntax. Okay. Yeah, I like how you do that. That’s good. Sorry, when I said do that, I went to watch a video and then for those who are listening to the podcast, the app asked me to sign up. So, I like that. Don’t ask me to sign up during the onboarding because you’ll see a big drop off, but the app asked me to sign up after I
wanted to do something. I’m like, fine, I will sign up then. Open special gift 50% off. Yeah. Again, I think it’s super cheap. You said second open. What happened? Second open. Okay. Oh, ask for review prompt. I love it. Oops.
True. Let’s see. Okay. I don’t even know how I was supposed to know that. Okay. The what does the dart code snippet demonstrate? var name equals it’s yeah declaring a constant variable. What? Man, I must suck at code. Complete the following code. Blank address equals I don’t even know anything about Dart. I
don’t know. It’s like why are you asking me all these quizzes without me knowing? String address two. The Dart code allows the address variable to be reassigned to a numerical value later. False. Can I get one right? Yes, sir. [laughter] Declare an integer variable in Dart and initialize it with the value.
What are you saying? See, I don’t even know why I would know all this stuff. Or maybe number. Let’s see if Okay. Anyways, I don’t know. I think the the app has a problem because I’m learning Dart, but you’re expecting me to know Dart. I don’t know. I could be wrong. That’s how I feel like right now as a user trying to learn Dart and this is the first level and I don’t know crap about this. So, I thought I would be learning it,
not just you quizzing me right away on it. All right. Gotta fix the typo. All right. Amir Amomar, if you’re watching this, I missed the continue button, but it said you got to fix that typo. Letter is my favorite. Good job, Hans. Let me see. Chelse animations are cute. If you fix the ASO on boarding, you have a good chance here. Yeah, I think so, too. I don’t know. The lessons are a little bit hard
for me. Maybe because I’m an idiot. Who knows, Rudy? Okay, a question after all. About two weeks ago, OpenAI disabled my API count with just an explanation. I did. My app doesn’t even store the AI response ever. Ever heard of that? Yeah. Sorry, Rudy. No, I haven’t. That’s crazy though. Just open up a new account, right? I don’t know, but that’s what I would do. All right,
cool. Any other questions? Chelsea agree about the quizzing teaching part. Yeah, thank you. Because I was like, what the hell? I’m not I don’t even know anything yet. Why are you quizzing me already? Jeez. Flutters.pro got a great website. Flutters.pro. That’s good. Good website. Might be like learn flutter.pros. Anyways, sweet. All right, guys. Well, I don’t know if there’s anything else that I
need to share. Uh, no, I think that’s it for me. If you guys got nothing else, we can call it short and sweet. You know, I’ll continue it. Most people don’t need to continue it. The what I What do you guys think? The go back to 9:00 a.m. Maybe go back to 9:00 a.m. Well, h actually, let’s do this. I found Oh, yeah. Okay. Thank you. All right. So guys, we’re gonna we’ve rebranded our what we’ve called app
sorry appmasters academy. We’ve rebranded it into appfounders.co app at appfounders.co. And look, the whole reason for those who are not familiar with this and I’m going to share it with you guys right now. The whole reason that I created app this community I comm I created it early on right when I left my corporate job. I created this community and we only started with 10 and we would do batches of 10 and then when I decided to take a
break from it just to focus on the agency, right? I went all in on that side and I came back to it a few years later being like I love it. Now the whole reason I have this is website’s down age the Okay, now it’s back up. The whole reason I have this is it was through a community that I it was through a community that allowed me to leave my corporate job right now. Our community is not side hustlers. They’re really app founders. But I
joined a community eoire elite. Still have the mug by the way. And I joined it and I paid them 300 bucks a quarter at the time. And it was through that community where I met a lot of great people and it was the perfect timing for what I needed. So in that community I started seeing it was just a private Facebook group. Started seeing people post, hey I just put my job in. I put my job, you know, I put my two weeks notice in. Put my new two weeks notice in. And after I saw that energy and a lot of people doing that, I turned to my wife
and I was like, babe, I think it’s time for me to maybe leave, right? Because the podcast has listeners now. like I have a couple of sponsors for crying out loud. They’re only paying me $500, right? That’s it. But I didn’t care. I was like, I think I have something here. And I was able because of the podcast, I was able to line up a consulting gig as well. So, they would pay me for part-time work. And I was like, perfect. And it was through that community I just finally felt the energy and the confidence to do that. [clears throat]
And so, that’s what this community is all about here. Yes, we have all the courses. Yes, all the secret stuff that I’ve not been able to share on YouTube will be in this. You come for the courses. What I say is you come for the courses to learn and you stay for the community. There’s a lot of great people that are on the live stream as well in the comments that are a part of this community. I’ll let them I don’t want to call them out. You know, I’ll let them tell you, but honestly, it’s one of the best things I’ve done. It’s still one of the most things I’m most passionate
about. We meet twice a month now and I’ve learned a whole lot through this community, through Henry, through Moyo, through a lot of different people within the community who have shared their insights and it’s just a great place. And I think part of it is that energy. You need to be around that if you want to grow. You need to be around the people that are looking to grow with you. And so that’s what this community is all about. So if you’re interested in learning more, just go tofounders.co.founders.co.
All right. All right. Cool. I think we’re good. All right. So, what we’re going to do right now is I want to do some dad jokes, but I forgot to find [laughter] H. We got to do it. You know, we got to do it. Let me try to find one really quick. >> I have some dead jokes for you. See, >> go for it, bro. Hold on.
Let’s do this. [music] >> Okay. >> Okay. All right. H. Go for it. >> Okay. Knock knock. >> Who’s there? >> Boo. >> Boo. Who? >> Don’t cry. It’s just a joke. >> All right. H. I like it. Hey, I like how you’re getting people saying, “Hey, H. Hey, you.” There you go, man.
Yeah. >> Okay. H, here we go. Scientists Scientists got bored after watching the Earth turn for 24 hours. >> So, they called it a day. There you go. All right. [laughter] Uh, put H if you thought my if you thought H’s joke was better, put S if you thought my joke was better. And then, how can I deal with app dropping? Let me see. We got a question here. Mez says, "How can I deal with my app dropping and keyword rankings due to AI made fake apps manipulating reviews and
keyword downloads reporting them? Apple hasn’t helped as they don’t address the issue." Yeah, there’s not much you can do, bro. Well, see, that’s why I’m like, find another distribution channel. Find something where you’re not going to be purely reliant on ASO and ASA like I’m purely on ASO. Like, obviously ASO is good, but you know, like this is the game. This is why I created that black hat ASOT the stuff I talked about at Revenue Cat is because you guys need to know what’s going on. If you’re not, you
know, some people I’m like, I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to do that. I’m like, okay, this is what happens. This is what happens if you don’t want to do that. And so, you know what I mean? like you kind of have to you either find a different distribution channel where it’s going to be heavily on paid or organic Tik Tok, organic social media, maybe it’s SEO, whatever you need to do. Find something different. So, the algorithms are always going to change. So, anyways, all right. Thank you, Seb.
Thank you. Thank you, guys. [laughter] All right. What do you think, H? We should go back to nine or stick with eight. What do you guys think? Eight or nine? 8 a.m. PST or back to 9:00 a.m. PST. Let’s see. Boom. Hey, for iOS app, does Apple ad works? For iOS app, does Apple ads work or social media ads like Tik Tok?
So, Apple ads do work and that’s one of the first ways I get started. I mean, look, if I’m talking about my way of launching apps right now, now everybody has their own strengths. Again, this is my strengths, so I’m going to leverage that. But this is also because it’s the most cost effective. So, I feel like you should go ASO and ASA first for the first couple of months because it’s the cheapest. You don’t need to figure out what creatives work, what anything works, right? You can even start with Apple Search Ads Basic and say, "Hey,
Apple, I’m willing to spend a,000, $3,000, $2,000 a month for a cost per install of this much, right?" And that works. I’ve seen clients do very well with that. I’ve even seen it with my own apps that do very well with just a basic campaign. Now, ultimately, it might slow down, but now you have enough data to see, hey, is that new pricing working? Is that new payw wall working? Or how’s my funnel? Any drop offs? Now that you feel good, then you scale it even further
with meta ads. So yes, Apple search ads do work. Eight, nine, eight. Okay, I’m getting mixed results. I like it. I like it. It’s two to one. All right, maybe we try it. Let’s see how it goes. Like, let’s see. One more suggestion. Okay, >> one more suggestion. Daily budget as I’m indie developer and doing on my current job. Yeah. So, I think if you’re doing Zeb nine, I know that’s we’ll play around with it. Maybe we stick with
nine. I mean, I can see how many people are here versus the nine o’clock one. Them the what I would say is for the daily budget like start with 30 to 50. You know, a few of my f app founder friends have done it with just 10. They’ll start with that. But I think 30 to 50 is a good range. That’s why with if you can’t spend that much, it’s just a math formula for Facebook to get smart, they need 50 events a week. And so if you’re able to just say, let’s do easy math, like $2, you need to speed up
spend $100 for the whole week. Okay, but let’s say you need five. Okay, well that’s five times 50, that’s $250, right? So it’s not too much and you can just divide that by seven. But, you know, like give yourself room because most of the time you’re not going to get those like $5 in $5 should be a good number to reach for. But that’s that’s how I would do it. All right. Cool. Okay. 9:00. Let’s go. Let’s go back to nine. We’re going back to nine. So, nine
o’clock next week. Back back to our normal time. We tried it. Failed. Okay. Well, that didn’t fail. Good number of people. Okay. Showed up. Compromise of 8:30. [laughter] No. Half of the hour. on top of the hour. So, hey, next week is it gonna be a great one. We’re gonna do it at nine o’clock. This guy, this somebody that we’re working with, I asked him to come on. He’s found some great success. I’ll let him share the numbers if he wants some great success just focusing in Thailand. He is in Thailand, so it’s super early for him.
It’s like midnight, okay? Like, or 2 am. So, he’s going to stay with us just to share content for you. So, do me a favor. Join us live. We’re back to 9:00 a.m. Pacific time and we’re going to share and some of the trends is focusing on these other countries, these other markets. Don’t just US specific because these other markets can grow abs are willing to pay and you’d be surprised at the number that he’s actually making from his app. So, join us Friday back to
9:00 a.m. Pacific every Friday. All right, guys. We we’re over 7,000, by the way. So, >> awesome. All right. H my wife shared with me a text message or a Facebook message that I I put up a few years ago and said, “Hey guys, go subscribe to my YouTube channel. I’m trying to get to 2,000 and impress my wife.” And, you know, it’s pretty uh humbling and I’m honored that we’ve, you know, from those days of me just struggling
get to 2,000 subscribers, we’ve now hit 70. So, it just shows keep doing what you’re doing. You know what I mean? You’ll you’ll find a breakthrough. Just keep working hard. >> All right. All right. Hares, you said it best. Thanks for all the inputs and love the energy. Thank you, my friend. Thank you for all you guys joining up live and for all those watch watching the replay or listening to the podcast. Appreciate you all. All right, we’ll see you next week, 9:00 a.m. Pacific. Bye.