| Source | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhp8Cw93JR8 |
|---|---|
| Readwise URL | https://read.readwise.io/read/01kv42wpa45mtz1kdxbevjvww8 |
| Readwise ID | 01kv42wpa45mtz1kdxbevjvww8 |
| Date | 2026-03-27 |
| Author | App Masters |
| Category | video |
| Cover image | https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Mhp8Cw93JR8/sddefault.jpg?v=69c4ef52 |
[music] [music] [music] >> What is up App Nation? It is your boy Steve P Young, founder of appmasters.com and today we’re going to talk all about one of my favorite topics beyond like, you know, just getting more downloads. And it’s about monetization and coming
up with interesting fun paywalls, maybe built on with the little help of AI and I got my buddy Trent from Try Helium that’s going to show you some of the cool interesting fun paywalls that you’re like, “No way that works better.” And he’s got the data to prove it does. So without further ado, let me find the video that I got to hit. Here comes H. Where is the video? Okay.
[music] >> There is H in the background working like magic. H, you should do that next time and I’ll just hit the intro. Trent, welcome to the show, my friend. It was pretty fun to have an intro video. Thanks for making that. >> [laughter] >> That’s sweet. I look like [clears throat] a baseball player. Yes, sir. All right, Nerax, good to see you, bro. Good luck with that new app. Louise is here. Kev is here as well. Frank, always good to see you on the
live streams. You guys are here, say hi as well. All right, Trent, let’s break it down for the users. I’m going to pull up this screen as well. And I’m going to go. It’s like I’m off my game here. All right. Go for it, Trent. What’s up, chat? Um so I always wanted to say what’s up, chat. I’ve been in chat many times. I’m a big big fan of the podcast. I always watch, so howdy, everyone. How you doing? Um yeah, I’m I’m Trent. I uh I’m a big
science guy. I’ve I’ve been a AI fanatic my whole life um and recently, last year, I’ve been at Helium and we’re doing kind of like a Superbowl but with AI. Like we let you monetize your app a lot more efficiently, run experiments really really fast and uh we’re seeing some crazy crazy stuff right now with how good these AI models are getting. Uh the types of things we can test are kind of blowing my mind. And I’m I’m stoked to just chat. Like I I we love we love having app founders um around. Um and yeah, we’re we’re learning some cool stuff.
Yeah, love it, Trent. Okay. And we’re going to show off some of those cool paywalls. You’re going to have to stay tuned. It’s going to be cool. And Trent can help you build it. So if you guys have some wacky ideas and I think that’s what, you know, when we were working together to come up with this topic, Trent, we were like, “Hey, what would be fun and what would be engaging?” And I work with Zach as well, the founder, and then he was like, “Let’s just build paywalls live.” And so if you guys have some wacky ideas for paywalls, Trent’s going to build them live within Helium. So all right, here is the paywall builder.
Sweet. Uh so yeah, we have an AI paywall builder. You can basically like uh any paywall you see online, you can take a photo of it and import it. Um if you have an existing paywall you want to build, you can just build it and then using our AI, you can make as many variants as you want and then you can deploy those and do an AB test in like a minute and then just see like, “Hey, if I turn this blue, if I change the padding a little bit.” If all these little changes you’ve kind of you don’t know if they’re going to work but you want to see if they’re going to work, you can just like let her rip. Um
it just means like anything you’ve ever wanted to know, anything you see online. Ev- Everyone on Twitter who’s like, “This will definitely work. Uh this paywall is perfect.” You can be like, “Let’s see. Let’s see if this paywall is actually good.” Like like square up, come on. Like I don’t believe you. You can try everything out on your app. Um and we’re seeing we’re just kind of having fun with it. I’m too afraid to make that claim, Trent. I’m like, “No.” I’m like, “Most of the time it works better.” You know, I [laughter] see some people on Twitter they’re like, “No, this beats every other paywall.” I’m like, “Bro, not every single time.”
I’ll never say I’ll never say always. We have some paywalls that are that are dominant and I know your favorite paywalls or at least you’ve said a couple times is like the the the the three-page trial paywall. We’ve seen that one really dominate but there are some segments where that that one doesn’t doesn’t actually do that well in. Bro, that is exactly it. Somebody, I won’t name names, but somebody was like, “No, this paywall wins all the time.” And I’m like, uh no. I Well, it’s still my favorite, Trent. I’ve seen some categories it does not win all the time, either. Yeah. Um that is a great paywall that I can’t
If you haven’t tried that one, you got to just you got to try it. We have a template for it. Nice. I’ll pull that up for those who aren’t familiar with what I’m talking about. Go ahead, Trent. So this is a video I thought I would just I thought I would throw it in. We just spent a bunch of time making a fun video, so I thought I’d play it. Um This is like a little demo of what Helium can do. Um we’ve been stoked about video and like we’ve been seeing a lot of videos go viral on Twitter and like AI video and stuff like that. So we’ve been doing a lot of experimentation.
[snorts] >> Yeah, so basically like we can do onboarding experiences, kind of anything you want. We’ll design your paywall experience, anything you see online, any screenshots you have. Uh if you want to say like, “Hey, make Cali AI’s exact paywall.” And you just upload a video, you can just try the Cali AI paywall, which some of our customers have done. Um I know that’s another one >> Literally that prompt? Uh yeah, I think I think so, yeah. >> [laughter] >> And then we have like a crazy amount of data at this point. We have like a over a billion paywall events. Um
so we’re like we’re using AI to like synthesize a crazy amount of data, kind of like RevenueCat’s. Um What was it called? Like the big RevenueCat report they do every year. But what we really care about we really we really we really care about we’re all absolute data nerds like I was saying earlier. So we really care about not just like, “Oh, on Thursdays people tend to convert better than on Mondays.” But like um we want to prove it. We want to say like uh we know for a fact that if you do this, it’ll make it make a
difference. Not that like, “Hey, 30-day trials tend to convert better on aggregate.” It’s if you actually use a 30-day trial, we know it’ll convert better. Uh we want to prove causation, which is much harder to do but like it’s totally possible. And and like that’s kind of our bread and butter is like we want to know exactly what’s going to work, be able to work with with app teams and like help them out with that kind of stuff. >> [snorts] >> Hey, Trent, can we do this like before we talk about and show off some of those cool paywalls that you’d be surprised that it works better? The you know, it’s
I went I had David on the podcast and we talked about some of those numbers and what I always feel like, you know, their numbers say, you know, longer trials tend to have less cancellations, which probably true. But I’m like, also I mean, that data is true but like to then adopt it as your main trial, I think it’s the wrong decision cuz what I’ve typically seen is 7-day trials convert the like are the best for that dominant, you know, onboarding paywall.
But if people cancel that trial or they say no to that paywall, maybe think about doing a longer trial cuz I’ve heard anecdotally from clients that yeah, that tends to convert better if they don’t want to sign up and they dismiss that paywall. Then do that 14-day trial. Don’t make that the default. And I think that’s how you have to kind of think through that data. You can’t just take data for data’s sent. You kind of have to, you know, use execution and logic behind it, too. One of the things like we we love the RevenueCat guys. Like Jacob, the CEO,
was just just at the office like 2 days ago. We were chatting with him. Um the report I think is is not that actionable. Uh cuz what what they were even saying I watched I watched the the report and I like we’re a big fan of those guys but it’s like you really can’t make a decision. You couldn’t say like, “Hey, 30-day trials convert better. That means I should I should do it.” Because like also apps that have 30-day trials, like YouTube has a 30-day trial. Like obviously people are going to convert on YouTube at a really high rate. Like the apps that can have a 30-day trial do. So like you can’t
really make a decision based on that. Every app is different. There’s always different context present. The the first day experience is important but then if you’re having a longer trial, your first week experience is important. Your first 2-week experience is important. So it’s hard to make a hard recommendation. I would say it’s a maturity thing and like the way the way we recommend doing it is like you can’t trust anything you read online. Why not just try it? Like your app is different than everyone else’s app. Try a 1-day trial. Try a 3-day trial. Try a 7-day trial. Just just just try it out and see what works. Yeah.
Yeah. And it’s easy to do. Like it’s so easy to launch experiments these days. Yeah, I think it’s good to have some data points to just think about but it’s also like that’s why I love getting the data because I talk to so many people like we’re actually executing and then when the data backs up the execution, that makes sense versus letting the data drive your execution. I’m like, “Oh, okay. I’m driving this execution. This is what I’m seeing.” Then the data backs it up. I’m like, “Okay, got it.” Yep. All right. >> Yeah, we like to know.
We like to know. We we never we’ll never tell you a platitude of this always works. It’s always context dependent. There’s so much so much >> Same, bro. Same. I’m the same way. Cuz the last thing I want is to be like, “Steve, you told me something didn’t work.” And I’m like, >> [laughter] >> “I don’t want that.” I said, “No. Try it. It should work for you.” Let me ask some We got some questions. So why don’t we answer some questions first and then we’ll show off the cool paywall. It’s a little teaser, Trent. It’s a little teaser. All right. Are you guys working on integrating auto research yet into the back end?
Auto research. Is this like competitor research? Uh like understanding Hey, it’s Guillaume. What up, dude? I know Guillaume. That’s funny. Okay, good. >> [laughter] >> This is my this is one of my buddies. You weren’t liking the question first and then you realized you’re a friend of your buddy. >> [laughter] >> What’s up, Segun? What’s up, VJ? All right. Well, Frank has another question and Guillaume will follow up. Did you say you can use this for building onboarding screens, too? Wait, hold on. Hold on. I’ll go to the auto research question. It is a good question. Uh right now we don’t have this, but
yes, like we are thinking about this a ton. And one of the reasons is our road map changed a little bit recently. Cloud code got so good that like it’s it’s if you can’t it like if your app can’t live in the command line interface, what are you what are you doing, you know? Like if you have to open a website and you and like build something there, uh you like we need to be moving faster. And one of the one of the MVPs we’re building um for like a command line interface tool is something like auto research. So like understanding the competitive landscape, looking and pulling up other apps and seeing what
they’re doing, stuff like that. Uh like we want to move from hey, we do your paywalls, do your onboarding, we’ll do a lot of retention stuff to hey, we’re your like intelligence engine. We’ll let we’ll let you know everything about your competitors. We’ll like give you advice on what seems to be working in your your category. We’ll off we’ll optimize kind of the the whole stack. So yeah, good question. Thanks, Kim. All right, Frank says, can we build onboarding with Helium? Onboarding screens with Helium? >> Absolutely. Uh we have some tools coming out. Right now most of our customers, they use the classic stack like
Amplitude, Mixpanel. We we we love Post Hog. We we recommend Post Hog. Those guys are legit. Um like a lot of people use that stack to track it. Um but in Helium, and I’ll show this off, uh you can just you can make whatever you want. So if you want to do a onboarding like a super complicated onboarding sequence and like track uh drop off with Amplitude, um it’s super super easy to do. You can just like launch an experiment. I’ll tell you guys about it. I can share a bit of alpha for for some some funny stuff we’ve seen work lately. Uh Yes.
with onboarding cuz uh it seems like to us there’s a couple couple of big areas of growth that like are really changing the game right now and onboarding experimentation is one of them. I think everyone’s always known onboarding’s important, but it’s been a lot of like I think this will work. This feels right. This feels good. No one like people aren’t really doing that much experimentation on it. And we’re seeing some crazy unlocks with with onboarding. >> it’s so hard to experiment with that. Like it’s a lot easier to experiment with paywalls, but it’s really hard to experiment with onboarding. Yeah. Cuz you have to build each screen and you never know the logic, too. Where
do you want to go next? You want to show the onboarding or you want to show off these paywalls? Some of these fun paywalls. >> Um let’s show off some of the fun ones and like we can just show we can go live as well. So this is the meteor one. >> I pulled together three paywalls. Yeah, this is just like I want to show everyone that like it used to take, I don’t know, if you’re using like code or an uh a a little like superwall revenue cap builder, if you want to like change the color of one of your components and see if that makes a difference, which it can, and like it’s maybe worth trying
out. That would take you an hour. Uh that would take you a while. You’d be like sitting there clicking like, how do I change this margin with this color? Okay, what’s a good contrast color for this? It would take a long time. It was annoying. So at the end of the day you’re like, why am I doing this? I should be working on growth. But now, this paywall, which I’ll show you, this took me like It played. 2 minutes. Like I just made this paywall for fun. You can just make this. You can this can be your paywall. You can you can you can have people slice meteors and then based on how many they slice, if they get a combo, you can give them like a special offer. And like you can you can launch
this experiment right now. Like this is a I can add this right now as a template on Helium. I can send you it. And uh you can see if it works. So like truly, you can really do anything. The space is like gotten absolutely blown open. There’s like there’s way more to learn now. You’ve never been able to try something like this. It’s always been the little stuff. And now you can you can try some really crazy stuff. Um like examples like this is a kind of fun goofy example for a uh like a Fruit Ninja paywall, but like
little things like animations that like keep happening on the paywall that you just couldn’t really do in a reasonable amount of time where like the main body of the paywall doesn’t start. Like it the paywall shows up and some content is clearly missing. So there’s something eye-catching and then the information about the trial like swoops in from the side. That’s one example of like that dominates. That wins really really aggressively because it catches people’s eyes and it makes them like most of what a paywall is is like everyone’s a monkey. They’re just like,
oh, what am I looking at? I noticed that in Helium, Trent, when you guys did it like I guess this is here when it played, it it was uh where was it? When you guys when this was building, I noticed that there was these animations that were happening like right here. It’s a big deal. Like Yeah. The the the big one we’ve seen is the the famous Blinkist paywall with the trial explainer, which is like in this in this many days in this many days we’ll notify you and in this many days your trial starts. Um what we notice is like what percent of people are not even
paying attention to that and just hitting X? The percentage is high. So your job, your first job on a paywall is get them to actually be interested in what uh like what what the pitch you’re trying to make is. Like let’s not even talk about like here’s what we’re trying to do to convince people um like how do you even grab their attention to get to get them to read one word is your first job. Um and yeah, this is an example. This is a little onboarding experience we have, which like you’ll notice there’s a lot of little tricks that you can try out,
which is like those little bubbles in the background. You’re just keeping their focus. Like that makes a difference. We tried without them and we tried with them. The the with one like it makes a difference maintaining people’s focus. These little like splash effects it’s not perfectly optimized, but like that kind of stuff makes a big difference. Haptic feedback is a famous one in onboardings. If you can like make it feel satisfying, just like keeping people’s focus, keeping people engaged in whatever experience you’re doing. Um we all like to like we think we’re we’re humans are all Einstein, but I think I’m
at least closer to a monkey than Einstein. Like I need I I’m going to lose focus. I’m going to put my phone down and go walk walk and go grab a a bite to eat. Uh so yeah, like there’s a lot of little things you can do to make a big difference. Dude, I I heard from a founder. He’s like, yeah, when I added this creating your experience, it increased conversions by 11%. And I love the way you pointed out like >> [snorts] >> And for me when I’m doing video, like I’m always moving things around because you know, and look at our video background, Trent. Like it’s always moving cuz we found that like yeah, like
I’m like if you watch a show, it’s never like one scene these two talking heads the whole time. And so that’s why I like having presentations cuz what are you going to do? Look at us the whole time? Like that you don’t want that. >> [laughter] >> All right, let’s keep going on this. This is cool. Um so yeah, you’ll see like you can just try all this kind of stuff. Like you and you should be trying all this stuff. You have no excuse anymore. You know, you used to have the excuse of like, oh, that’d be so annoying to test. Like I know that there’s these great paywalls
out there, but like I don’t I can’t build them myself. Uh but now there’s not really an excuse. Like you why not just try everything out? Why not try showing three plans on one paywall? People don’t do that very often. Why not try it out? Try highlighting every like starting the default as all the different um different plans, seeing what that does. Uh change your color scheme a little bit and see how that impacts things. Uh we have people running like eight or nine experiments at a time just to like see what’s up. And like eight of them are a wash, one of them makes a difference and that’s their new paywall.
Only because I I read this at the bottom right here, Trent. It says selecting relaxing soundscapes. What I also noticed was that I saw this on another app and I won’t like I’m friends with them, so I won’t call them out. They’re like, don’t call them don’t call us out, Steve. We don’t want people knowing. But what they what I noticed with them when I got confirmation from another app like [snorts] one of their competitors that it works is that having if you’ve got like a a sounds app like something with audio, like playing that audio,
like if it’s a sleep sounds app, playing that audio during the onboarding tends to convert better as well. And I’m sure you guys we can do that with Helium. You’re going to tell me. Yeah, absolutely. I think I know the team you’re talking about, too. You can do anything with Helium. Like I’ll show you when we do a demo. It’s just code. Like really, we’re we’re a we’re not a a like a builder. We’re we let you deploy code live and you can then like ship a new paywall, run an experiment without an app update. Frank was like he’s interested in that Fruit Ninja thing. [laughter] What category was a slicing game for? All right, the
slicing one was not a live paywall. That was just me goofing around. Um I made it like a couple hours ago. But we do have another one, right? We have another one. Yeah, here’s one that won, Frank, if you like this. And then we we’ll ask Trent what the category was. First we’ll show the paywall. Should I hit play, Frank? >> Yes. Yes, Steve asked what’s the what’s the craziest win you’ve ever seen? And this was it. This is the craziest win I’ve ever seen. Someone built uh and this it’s modified to like hide the anonymity of the app, but they literally built Flappy Bird
in a in a paywall and then the higher your Flappy Bird score is, the deeper discount you get up to 50%. So like uh if you like if you keep going and and I’m like you got a 30% discount, you can look and it’ll show up, it’ll pop up at a 30% discount. And then you could be like, no, I want a deeper discount. Just play Flappy Bird more. And that paywall won. Like it just straight up won an experiment. They were goofing around. They were like, I wonder what’s I wonder if I show 10% of users this paywall uh what’s what’s going to happen? >> Trent.
No way that’s a paywall. Evon says, no way that’s a paywall. >> [laughter] >> It really won. I’m not kidding. Like I’ll I’ll send you this paywall, you can try it out on your app. Oh, I’m going to share this on on LinkedIn. I love this. If you’re like a if you’re a businessy app, like if you’re a really like focused app, you probably shouldn’t try this, but a lot of whimsical apps that are kind of gamified already, this kind of thing is is just fun. Yeah, I can see like a water hydration app, you know, something that’s more fun. Yeah, not too bad. Not too Maybe not sleep apps. Like if you’re trying to >> Now Flappy Bird’s back on the App Store
finally, which is great. Uh you just have to open a paywall really fast. Uh that’s 10. That’s also that’s awesome. This is cool. And that’s just within Helium. Like you didn’t even have to write a piece of code for Flappy Bird. No, yeah. Um we just typed we I chatted with the Helium AI for a little bit. Was like, hey, I want to make a paywall that’s like more gamified. I gave a couple suggestions and then I was like, wait, Flappy Bird would be pretty fun. Um, this was like a an app we were working with. Pretty goofy. [snorts]
Damn, lol. Frank and then Louis says, yeah, I downloaded this app because the paywall is a really fun game. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, that moment when the the actual game is less fun than the paywall game. >> [laughter] >> No, I just want the paywall. I don’t want your actual >> I can’t subscribe. Come on, I got to keep playing the paywall game. That’s like those the the mobile game meta where like the ad the game in the ad, you’re like, oh, that looks sweet. And you get in the actual game and you’re like, oh, man. Well, Trent, can you share the category? Was it like a productivity app? Was it a fitness app?
Like is there anything within that you can you might be willing to share? Um, this paywall test? It was a like a AI It was like in the student category, I would say. Okay. [snorts] Yeah, it’s targeted at a younger audience. Okay. That’s That’s great, dude. I like it. Like AI note taker, the lecture notes. We work with different like that. I think I think we we do a lot of segmentation and like we try to we try to like help people understand the variables that impact conversion. So like the big one, I’m
sure everyone knows this one by this point, but like age is a really big one. Like people of different ages, that’s a really good way to think about groups of people. So like above 35, they think pretty differently. Like I’m sure your parents think pretty differently than you do, you know? Like what works on you does not going to work on your parents. I think that’s obvious, right? So we like push of apps we work with like, hey, let’s think about the variables that are relevant for you and then let’s work on those experiences separately. Like we don’t want to be like like you’re you’re you’re trying to convince a room of 30-year-olds and 80-year-olds to do
something, you should probably split them into two rooms and have two people making different pitches to them, you know? You should not be saying the same things. You’re going to like you’re going to learn the wrong thing. You’re going to learn from the 80-year-old one thing and you’re going to learn from the 30-year-old something else. So we say like, hey, like split up the data a little bit and start to learn a bit about about the people using your app and and they they they they behave very differently. >> [snorts] >> All right, Trent, I’m going to put you on the spot then. For those that are catering to an older audience, have you seen any fun paywalls work well?
Um. You already wowed them once. Can you wow them again, Trent? I don’t know if I have a fun one for this one. Like to be completely honest, I think the older audience, they’re really wooed by authority. So like you can’t the whimsical stuff, I think works with great with young people and we’ve noticed that. But for the older audience, little little things like um in your onboarding, this is this is more alpha, I’ll share. In your onboarding, if you um
have an appeal to authority somehow, um like one we’ve seen is like who referred you and it’ll say like my personal trainer or um uh like a television ad or like something that seems really legitimate. Even if you’re not you don’t have partnerships with personal trainers, you know, you don’t have a TV ad. Um that really works with older audiences. So apps that target older audiences, that’s like a a bit of a bit of uh a bit of alpha for for everyone here. Bro, uh where’s my sound effect? Where’s
it? Where’s it? Where’s it? Ah, damn it. Okay, I need to get a sound effect. I love the idea of having a sound effect. All right, you did it. That’s a second wow. I’ll give it to you, bro. I love it. I love it. Okay. I want to add that right now cuz we have an older audience and that’s just blew my mind. I was like, duh, like a personal trainer or TV ad and like exactly what you said. Doesn’t mean you have to do it, but seeing that on there means you add a little bit of legitimacy. Love love love. All right, Trent. You want to try to build some interesting paywalls or you want to go ahead?
Let’s let’s do chat builds a paywall. How about that? Um Chat okay. >> [laughter] >> Frank, come on, Frank. Come up with some ideas for an interesting paywall, man. >> Let me let me find a good starting point. I’m going to I’m going to grab one of our templates really fast. Um Uh chat. Let me just share my screen really fast. You guys can get a peek at it. And uh I think Zach was on AppMasters like 9 months ago. When we were we were like, oh, we have a waitlist. We only
work with certain apps. So we’re public now. You can you can just go to go to our website, you can start using us. It’s tryhelium.com. While So we have just this is a little a little open secret. Um the meta on landing page a lot of times is if you’re a really big app and you write like, hey, what’s your average revenue? If you click get started, we’ll ask you a couple questions. If you just say you’re a really small app, um you can just get in. But we we we want to catch the big apps and like chat with them a little bit first. So like it’ll look like you can’t get in, but like just say that you’re a really small
app and it’ll let you right in. There you go, again. Okay. >> [laughter] >> Little hack there. Trent knows who he’s talking to. Which audience. Hey, if you’re a big app, also do it. Like I want everyone to get in. I’ll probably I’ll probably make it fully like everyone just gets in instantly pretty soon. >> [laughter] >> That’s why I love you guys, too, and that’s one of the reasons why when Zach was like, hey, you know, work with us and I’m like, yeah, dude, I just like your personality. You guys are relaxed, more fun. Nothing needs to be too serious here and we’re talking about serious stuff. And then the fact that,
you know, you come up with these I love it. The TV angle. I love this, Trent. I love it. Trainer and TV angle. I love it. All right. So can you guys see my screen? Is it showing up? >> Cool. Whoop. Don’t worry, H, I got it, okay? You just sit back. I see him in the background. Just relaxing. All right. So we’re in the paywall editor right now. Um this is like a really really simple paywall. It’s like a there’s just one
product. This is like a If you haven’t tried this paywall, you should try it, you know? See if it works for you. Uh you don’t really show that much optionality, but like you you remove the analysis paralysis. So if you’re kind of like someone’s a little bit interested, they’re already pretty keen, you we’ve got the free trial here. If you change the product, so if you throw in like a 3-day free free trial and like a a lower annual price or you do a monthly, like this will just adjust to match whatever the the dates you have are. Um yeah, this will be our starting point.
And then we can take it like I’m literally whatever you guys want to try, we’ll we’ll just like see what the AI builds. Okay. What kind of app is this, Trent? Um I think this is a template. This is a template, so like not a real app. I think like I used Nano Banana to make this this image up here. I mean, I would love Also a great tool. Yeah. Go ahead. So yeah, let’s say it’s a meditation app and let’s say we want to build an onboarding. Let’s build a paywall to wow an older user in the office app space.
Okay, yeah. Let’s do an onboarding sequence tailored to convert uh older users um in the office space. So like older users who might meditate at work. I love uh three-page onboarding sequence um tailored to convert a older user in the business meditation space. So it’ll take
a bit, you know, like some of these models it’ll take a minute or two. >> [snorts] >> Um so we can either dual thread or um People have some questions. Yeah, let’s do Q&A. That sounds great while we while we watch. Um Let me let me pull up chat. I’ll have to mute it so I don’t hear myself talking. No, it’s okay. I’ll pull I’ll keep an eye on the chat. Looks like it’s working pretty well. I love it.
Whoop. We’re okay with silence. Once in a while. Hey, it’s a meditation app. This is a time a really nice time to meditate, you know? We’ll take that as a You want to lead it, Trent? >> [laughter] >> Yeah, I’ll make you the focus. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> [laughter] >> All right, everybody, we’re going to breathe in slowly. You’re actually doing it. I love it. Hold it in.
Breathing out. All right, there we go. I love it. I feel better. Um what do you get at the end code? Um oh, let me just give you everyone a tour. Why not why not do that? Um like I was saying, it’s just code. Uh if you like coding, you can just code in Helium and do whatever you want. Um I don’t really code anymore. I used to code, but I just use AI. So like I’ll use the chat cuz it’s just easier. Um occasionally, if I’m trying to do
something insane that like I want to multi-thread and have sub-agents working on, and we’re working on this, by the way, I’ll just copy all of the code for the paywall over here and put it in cloud code and like do a bunch of changes, then bring it back. Um but you can just kind of just build whatever you want. Um it’s very very unrestricted. You you we sync with your real product. So any products you have on iOS or Android um and Stripe, uh you can pull in. Um and then we’ll just show those real like whatever the real price is, whatever
offers you have, the paywall will be built to handle anything. So if you update on iOS, you like add a new trial that’s that’s active, our our paywalls are built to like you don’t have to make a change, it’ll just take the whoop, we got a bug. Hate to see it. So it’s auto-fixing. >> [snorts] >> You know AI, sometimes it uh We need to get a second try. We got some questions. What languages are supported? Frank says. Um yeah, let me let me show. So we have auto-fix. So sometimes the
first try it’ll it’ll have a little bug, so it looks like it’s making a fix. Uh we do support all of these languages. Um and it looks like it did fix it. >> hard to see, but is there like a few popular ones you can read out for us? We support every language uh and like dialects, too. But like in this localization tab you see on the side, you can just use AI to do translations or if you have localizations you like and you use you speak the language, you just add the language. So like let me add French, Portuguese, Chinese, apply changes and then I could click we just
change this auto translate. So now it’s just going to add translations to every single one. It’ll look look at the user’s device and actually say like look at that. There we go. It’s now doing translations, update preview. Sometimes you want to QA it so like let’s just make sure the Chinese looks right. We can like go through the onboarding. Wow. Yeah, it looks pretty good. Um Here’s English. So that’s funny. It rebuilt the whole paywall instead of the in my head I was like let’s have the
onboarding be before. >> [cough] >> Excuse me. Let’s have the onboarding be before but it looks like it designed a whole new experience. So yeah, it built a tailored like built for leaders like you 5-minute sessions helps reduce stress, helps lead your team. And then it uh Nice. choose your path. Which again, I don’t know if this will work perfectly. Like certainly you can do some optimization on copy, you can do some optimization on design, but like this is a one sentence prompt that that uh you can
now just try. You could just launch this. You could run an experiment where you’re like I want to see the impact of showing this paywall instead of my normal paywall to users over uh 45. Um And yeah, like Trent, how do we get started? Is there does it require an SDK I’m assuming? Yeah, so it’s a really simple SDK um and it’s like two steps. Step one uh initialize helium. So you just say like hey helium, there’s a new user and like when you open the app you just kind of initialize us. And what we do is we
look at the user, we we all the information we have about the user, we pre-download all the paywalls. Um and like I won’t go into too much this isn’t nerd stuff, but like uh our one of our co-founders is like he did infrastructure at Amazon and he’s like we can never not show a paywall. If we ever don’t show a paywall, we’ve failed and we deserve to die as a company. So he’s like we have to like pre-download everything. So like when you open the paywall it’s already ready. Um and there has to be a hard copy. So like if AWS is down, if Google Cloud is
down, everyone you will still see a paywall. So like that’s what the initialization step is is you’re kind of setting up like here’s the whole paywall set up for my app, here’s who this person is. Uh and then wherever you want to show a paywall it’s kind of like super wall. Uh you just like trigger a paywall like a placement. Um and you can chain paywalls. You can like trigger one paywall into the next paywall into the next paywall if you want like a second try experience where like they close the paywall and you you show them a better offer. Um
But yeah, like it’s it’s super simple. It generally like I use cloud code to integrate now. Like I don’t I haven’t I haven’t done a manual integration in a long time. We have an MCP server to integrate. Like I don’t think you should use anything except for AI to integrate. Um it it takes an hour. Um and then basically like any paywall once you get that app the first build once you have the first build approved by Apple which we know it takes a long time. We’re we’re really hearing it’s it’s a tough tough world out there. Um once you do that then any paywall you ever want to try you can just try without an App Store review.
That’s I love that. The to connect let’s say all those discounting things that I love to the 10 to 30% and the 50%. Is it poss is it pretty easy just to connect those new plans from App Store Connect to Helium? Is that how you kind of pull it or is it I don’t know. I’m not technical so I’m just I’m wondering. >> Yeah. Yeah, this is the way this is one of the the things about paywalls that we found people find pretty annoying is like yeah, I’ve got App Store Connect I have to make all these changes here. Now it’s how do I manage these? And like
little little stuff like Android uh trials work really differently than iOS trials. Everybody knows this. Um it’s why RevenueCat is a business frankly is cuz Android and iOS are so annoying and so different and so unwieldy to use sometimes. Um So yeah, we make it super easy. Like we really just like you sync your your apps with Helium um and like we just like know what your products are. Uh you can always just like resync and we’ll we’ll relearn what your products are. And then from then on like any change you make to the product
will be reflected in the paywalls. Uh so if you add a trial, if you change the price, if you change the price in a certain region, um all of those types of things uh just like our SDK looks directly at what the real product is and it’s kind of prepared for for whatever you’re going to throw at us. I like it. Do you have Swift SDK? Yeah, totally. Easy answer. And no, you don’t have to go through Apple review to change your onboarding paywall. The one thing I will say is like um don’t break TOS after you’ve gone through App
Store review. Like I’ll just say that, you know, like you can do anything you want, but like don’t do something crazy. Don’t do something absurd. We we found like you know App Store review it’s very inconsistent. Um the only time we’ve ever seen anyone get in trouble and it wasn’t actually on Helium it was they were doing something else was uh trying to like sneak something by Apple. So you can do anything as long as it’s compliant. Um and and kind of the the the guidance that Apple gives is you try to show as long as you’re like not materially changing something like a
huge completely new experience, uh you don’t have to put it through review. So if you’re adding like 25 slides and like an interactive crazy experience to your app and you’re collecting a bunch more data and and some or something like that, uh you might want to put it through review, but like yeah, you can if you’re trying a new onboarding experience, if you’re changing slides around, if you’re changing the color scheme, if you’re doing any of the kind of standard experimentation, um yeah, you no need for for review. I like it. All right, I want to get to one-time payments. Oops, let me get
this. Boop. This one is really cool and this is the best way that I found that people have implemented and I shared it with Zach and then he’s like yeah, we got this now too. This is what we’ve seen. So talk to me about this, Trent. Let’s rip through this. Like basically everybody knows there’s a revolution in the mobile space right now and it’s not this. It’s uh AI. It’s like way more apps are coming online and that’s crazy. But there’s another revolution that if you’re on Twitter a lot, you will uh see this.
Um Apple and Google both got sued by Epic Games. They lost the trials. Both of them lost the trials. They were ruled that they had a monopoly on the App Store space. Um and Steve, I know you know this. You know that like um being a mobile app versus being a web app, there’s a lot of pros, but it’s brutal out there because no matter how good you are, your margins are cut into by 30%. That’s that’s crazy, you know? Like that’s a huge deal. And that that just means like if you think about it, there’s a hundred
web apps, there’s a hundred mobile apps. They’re all like distributed like the quality of the app is pretty even. Like they’re all pretty good apps. Uh the web app it’s just easier to be a web app like cuz you don’t have to pay anyone 30% of your profits or 15% to start out for iOS. So what we’re seeing right now is Apple and Google are both responding to these these trials where they’ve been ruled a monopoly and they’re opening up the store. And and what that means is that kind of feed like the the the clamp that’s been on the mobile industry is coming off. And we think in
the same way that if you if you really project it out a couple months back um what AI meant for the mobile space, we’re we’re we’re kind of looking at like if you look a year out from now, we think the fact that Google and Apple aren’t going to be able to charge the same amount and you’re going to be able to pay pay through Stripe, it just changes the economics of the game. Um like the ads are more profitable now because if you’re not paying Apple 30% uh on every single payment and you can do it in a profitable way, more profitably. You can scale way faster. Um so we’re stoked basically. That’s a
a long winding way to say we’re pretty stoked about what we’re seeing. Um And this is the best best way I’ve seen implemented because I’m going to show you a a bad way and I I have this the flow period tracker and they’re doing something similar. So they’re trying to get you to pay outside the App Store. And so when I hit one of these plans right here I hit a yearly plan free trial enabled, sure. They take me outside of the app to a website. Now I’m in Safari and I’m
getting to pay and I’m like and when every time we’ve done this, Trent, we’ve seen a big drop off. We’ve seen a huge drop off. And so when I think if you guys are paying attention to the way this is working through Helium is right when you select it the Apple Pay prompt. And so from an end user it seems like you’re used the way that you’re used to signing up for a trial and for a subscription is seamless versus taking them outside or even popping up a Stripe link which we have done in the past. Those generally have performed worse
than just showing the Apple in-app purchase. But I feel like this way is the best way right now. And we’re seeing like almost similar conversion rates to a normal in-app purchase. But now it’s happening through Apple Pay through Stripe. >> I can I can one-up you on this. We’re seeing better conversion rate on on Stripe. So like you we we test all of this and we’ve been testing this for years and like testing different variants. And we’ve basically been perfecting app-to-web which is like handling payments outside of Apple in compliant ways. And we’re seeing like
the the game has always been in and people in the know always knew this. There were some cases where app-to-web made sense. Uh generally web-to-app where you have an a web onboarding experience, you purchase then go into the app. That worked pretty well if you could refine it. But app-to-web has always been a little bit of like kind of a watch. Like you get you make 30% more if you’re a big app you pay 30% Apple so you don’t pay that, but you generally saw a drop off of 30% almost exactly 30%. And it’s almost humorous. It’s like it’s like Apple constructed those numbers cuz they knew that that
was the right exact trade-off. Um but we’re seeing kind of a revolution because um enforcement is different right now. That’s that’s all I’ll say. Um so uh the fact that you can Yeah. Yeah, we got them right here. Um So, like some things you see when you when you handle the payments yourself, people convert from a trial to paid more. The initial conversion, I think can be slightly lower on aggregate, but the trial conversion rate being higher and the retention being higher means the average revenue per user is better.
So, this is crazy. Like we’re we’re we were building a lot of stuff, but we are all hands-on deck on on After Web right now because like I said, we think it’s it’s a force multiplier for the mobile space that has been like kind of living under these the the two kings for a long time. And we’re the the peasants are finally free. Dude, and if I may, like I get I get it. Like when Apple first released the App Store, they helped with distribution. So, it made sense in 2010
when I first got in the App Store. I was like getting thousands of downloads from the very jump. It made sense. I was like, “Cool, you’re helping with distribution.” Now we get no distribution. So, for all the Indies out there who asked me this question, “Steve, I want to get everything right for the Apple bump.” Bro, there is a very small Apple bump. There’s very Don’t wait. It’s not worth it, in my opinion, to wait to get everything perfect for the you know, the Apple launch bump. F it. Like it’s nothing. Even Apple features don’t even mean anything. And Trent, like you know,
I’m going to go on a soapbox here and I’m going to go on a >> Yeah, please. >> If you open up the App Store, like it goes straight into search now. So, now it’s not even like today. Like getting the feature doesn’t mean diddly-squat than it meant in 2017 when we were like heads down helping clients get featured by Apple. And that drove like hundreds of thousands of downloads. So, it made sense to take 30, 15% back then when you helped with distribution, but now it just doesn’t make sense. What other business do you run where like you’re going to lose 15 to 30% right off
the jump? Like nothing. No other business where you just lose everything. And again, it made sense. You helped with distribution. Now that you don’t help with distribution, it makes no sense to take that big of a cut anymore cuz distribution’s all on us right now. Hey. That was a great soapbox. You got to play the the applause sound for yourself right there. All right. Well, thank you. Let me find it. All right. >> [laughter] >> Thank you. All right. With that, let’s get into some dad jokes and some
app audits. >> [music] >> All right, Trent, my man. You came out with three. You said I said, “You got some dad jokes?” He said, “Bro, I got three for you.” >> [laughter] >> I love dad jokes. My girlfriend hates them, but I I laugh every time. I don’t know if she laughs. She kind of Dude, I laugh every time. I only share the ones that I like audibly laugh out loud. But you want to go first or you want me to go first? Uh you go first. You go first. >> Okay. Well, I want to play pay homage.
So, Chuck Norris died 20 years ago, Trent. It just took death until today to build up the courage to tell him. So, I wanted to give a shout-out to >> really funny. I I grew up I love Chuck Norris jokes. I also brought a Chuck Norris joke. So, we’ll do a head-to-head right now. [laughter] All right. Deal. Let’s go. That’s perfect. That’s so funny. Oh, man. Chuck Norris once killed 20 people with one grenade throw. He keeps the grenade on his nightstand
to commemorate it. Bro, I had the same one saved. [laughter] That one had me like out loud laughing when I read it. I love the Chuck Norris jokes. No, shout-out to Chuck Norris and RIP. I remember one of my like early childhood stuff with Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee fighting. Oh, man. Bro, like it’s like two worlds colliding for me. I was like, “What?” It’s like Hulk Hogan versus Ultimate Warrior. I was like, “What?” And that’s old school for most
people, but when those two going at it, I was like, “Whoa, this is this is the greatest.” It’s like seeing, you know, I don’t know, LeBron and Michael go at it. I was like, “What? This is This is the best, but you know, you missed the prime.” Anyway. >> probably the the best jokes out there. Yeah. >> When I was growing up, it was your mama jokes and Chuck Norris jokes. >> [laughter] >> They’re the best. The best. All right, let’s get into some app audits for the audience we have. Which is the first one? The Okay. We have
Shan’s app and I I have the app on my phone, but she he wants help with promotion. So, it’s a Google Play app. It helps you transfer phone data and content to I’m assuming another phone or a backup. But let me look at this. And says app promotion. That’s pretty much it. Anything you want to lead off with? Trent, I know I didn’t give I didn’t give you much to go off of. >> I’m going to I’m going to do the thing the annoying thing of it’s always context-dependent. I don’t know the
specific category that well. I don’t know your competitors. I don’t know your distribution strategy. So, I’m not going to give you like here’s exactly I don’t know how your users are primed. Like how are people getting here is my first question. Cuz I’m like are they are you doing are you running paid ads? Are they already interested? They Do they already have a specific feature that they’re like, “Ooh, I heard it that this lets me do this.” Or are you genuinely like um most of your growth is organic and a lot of people are kind of just stumbling upon the app cuz someone tells them about it or like for share apps like this, a lot of times it’s
um I want to share something with you. And you have like a really nice natural growth engine because you have to download the app in order to get it. Uh so, in those cases, you’re optimizing for different stuff. So, we can give general general advice, but like my advice would be pick a distribution strategy and and really get in that headspace. Whatever whatever your strategy is right now, dial that in super well and perfect your landing page to for for that strategy. I love it. Yeah, and I think I would I would say something similar where if you’re trying to do organic within Google Play, there’s custom store
listings. And so, there’s a bunch of features that you have Oh, it’s not Shan. It’s Shaw. Shaw, you have a bunch of features. And what I would say is file transfer, you know, talk about that. That could be a custom store listing. If you have free storage, free up storage, you can have a custom store listing. So, that That means you can have a whole new title, subtitle, or short description, and description focus on specific keywords. And that’s what I would do. And then with Android, man, like most of the time, you can just you can get pretty cheap
installs. And so, Google Ads, Meta Ads, like Google Ads is so easy to set up. You can do a TROAS campaign and get it going. Use Helium to try to figure out what Android people are actually willing to pay for cuz not a lot of people are willing to pay on Android. But that’s what I would do. If you’re trying to do organic, custom store listings. If you got a little bit of money of paid, try some Google Ads and get it going there. Yeah, I would also just say, you know, give a shout-out. I like these assets. They’re pretty good. Like they I think they do a good job of
not being too cluttered. They kind of show the Like I can I can quickly peek and be like, “I kind of get this.” The only thing I’d say is make the fonts bigger across the board. Um especially at the top. Like I really like the the headlines, but like why not just make them a lot bigger? Make the font more splashy. Um but like yeah, these assets are great. I got to got to got to give credit. Yeah. Love it. All right. Cool. Let’s get on to the the next app. I couldn’t download this app, but Shaza Shaza and I’m just going to
assume everything’s a he, okay? Like he is got this app. It’s only on the iPad, so I couldn’t download it on my iPhone and it’s very hard to share my iPad. But wants help with App Store page here. And looks like an looks like almost a kids app based off this App Store page that I’m reading. To teach kids how to draw. That’s pretty sweet. Um Again, the question is how are users getting here? But in general, I would say like my my bread and butter isn’t
ASO. It’s not App Store optimization. I I end up working on it a lot cuz a lot of the customers we we have a like an agency model, too. Where like we just help you grow your app. And like um uh I would say it’s pretty good. Like it’s pretty clear what you can do. Um Like I think you’re talking about the features and what they what they can do pretty well. We’ve got a comment. Is this the app creator right here? I I’m assuming Sick. >> all my users are from TikTok. Okay, great. >> Fire.
Okay, she I’m sorry, Shaza. I’m glad you’re here. So, she said, “Yeah, all my users are on It’s like an iPad version of vintage Kid Pics from the 90s.” The hell is the Kid >> I guess the only thing I would say for this kind of thing is if your users are coming from TikTok, you could kind of mention it and like and like allude to it. If you have like if you’re doing UGC at all from TikTok or like it’s just actually organic TikTok growth, uh like whatever art people are making, you can feature that. And that’s like a really fun thing cuz they’ll like when you’re doing when
you’re doing this kind of growth, they’ll love being hosted and like featured in the on this kind of thing. So, I’m assuming if they go viral on TikTok, it’s because they made something dope. You know, like they drew something cool and there’s there’s something you can show off here. So, that could be a pretty pretty cool way to to connect with the community. And like I would say seeing one of the masterpieces, like I I think the Van Gogh is the example you have here that drawing. Show more of like the the dopest stuff that people have made or because I think especially if they’re
coming from TikTok and like creation is what they care about. Yeah, I’ll check out the app, Shaza, because my daughter loves this stuff. And we even paid for I forgot what the coloring app was, but we have a coloring app one that we paid for on the iPad. And yeah, like it I love this. I think iPad is awesome. Like we had one client, Trent, that we’re working with that was making about 2 million ARR, and 1.4 of it was through sales from iPad. And so, Shaza, I think
iPad is very very interesting for you to to try to try out. And you know, with the other people’s ads. >> aren’t >> spending lot of time. I think I had that’s a good example. There’s always always opportunity. Um if there’s a reason why other people aren’t there, it’s both maybe you should think about the reason, you know, like not a lot of people develop for iPad, but also it’s an opportunity. Um If everyone’s everyone’s using the same reasoning. I’ll check out the app on my iPad now that I know that. All right, Shaza. Hope that was helpful. If there if there’s
any other questions you have, Shaza, just leave in the comments and I’m happy to answer it while Trent’s here as well. Trent, I’ve got some I don’t know I don’t know if I have got some good news. Good news is you were awesome today. The bad news is you lost the dad joke round. Pretty It was a lot of s’s. >> [laughter] >> Hey, maybe it was just a shot out but that so RIP Chuck Norris. But we got H who’s going to pick a winner for just for you guys voting. Oh, look at him. He’s going to do everything. I don’t have to do anything, Trent. Watch this. Like my hands are right here. You know I’m not doing anything on the mouth. All right, H, you take it away then. I’ll
let you control everything. Shaza, you. Let’s spin the wheel and get the winner. H, you want to do the the you want to thank our sponsors, too, after you pick the winner? Let’s see how H does. Yeah, sure. Oh, here’s the winner. Luciana. Luciana, who’s Luciana? Let me find her. Oh, okay, good. All right. Email me today, please. Some people email me the next day and then we forget. Okay, H, let me do this. I’m
going to take a screenshot of this so we remember Luciana. All right, on the day that it happened and I have it on my downloads folder. Good. All right, hold it here. Hold it. Hold it. Smile. Just kidding. All right. All right, good. Got it. And then Luciana, please reach out to me. Email me steve@masters.com and I’ll get you in contact with our team to give you a free Indie App Santa promo on us. All right.
Anything you want to add on, Trent? You want to give another bonus like a free thing? Uh if you just email me, I’ll give you a Helium discount. This isn’t like a special thing. >> Wow. Um Sometimes [laughter] you just got to ask. Maybe on my Twitter, you know, whatever. All right. >> Wow. Unless you’re mean. If you’re if you’re a nice person, I tend to just throw out discounts. Well, I do want to thank my sponsors. SocialPeta, look, if you guys are looking to figure out what’s working in the app space in terms of the analytics and what creatives are, especially for gaming companies, they’re
huge with the gaming companies. So, check out SocialPeta. They’ll give you the insights from all the ad networks on which ad creatives are working well and obviously everybody knows about AppsFlyer, the MMP that you need if you’re trying to do omni-channel, especially when I think about omni-channel and you have essentially means you have more than one channel that you’re running ads on and on CoreKit where they do monetization and win-back strategies as well and they’ll be at MAU Vegas with us. Trent, anything I miss? Very generous. Thanks, Trent. Anything I miss that you want to make sure we cover?
No, I was out here having fun. Uh it’s really great to be on. Uh I’m a big fan of the show. It’s been super fun like chatting with you, but also like we’re we’re having fun doing monetization. Like we’re trying to we’re trying to make it fun. We’re trying to make it so you can just goof around and and try a Flappy Flappy Bird paywall in production and see see what happens. So, um always feel free to reach out. You can either sign up on here and like hit get started, put in your info. I’ll shoot you an email. Just say like you were you were you heard through Steve and I’ll give you a pretty nice discount. Um or just shoot me an email. Like I if you have any monetization
questions, we run a paywall agency um as well and like so I’m in the weeds all the time like thinking about how to do this right. Awesome, bro. So, shoot me an email. Like I’d love to help out with any any problems you guys are having. Or I’ll I’ll just be in chat maybe next time next time >> [laughter] >> people are thinking about >> Trent from Helium. Yeah, why not? I love it. Are you going to be at MAU Vegas? Uh I think so. I think so. >> Okay. That’ll be sick. All right. And for those who are in London, all you my Europeans, I’m going to be coming to
App Promotion Summit now called Business of Apps in London, we’re going to do a workshop. So, reach out to just email me because H and I are working on that landing page a little bit. The [snorts] We’re going to do it day after. So, April 23rd, I’m going to be hosting a panel there on April 23rd and then April 24th, we’re going to have just more of like a a workshop session. Not a lot of like presentations. It’s more of just let’s work together. Let’s grow together. Let’s share knowledge together. Kind of like what we just did
here with Trent, just opening up Helium, just being like, “Look what I can do.” Kind of just sharing insights and so it’s going to be fun. It’s going to be very limited to about 20 people and then I’ve got the WeWork office all set up for us, but we’re going to do just for 4 hours, work together like a a lab I don’t know what I need a better name than workshop, Trent, but a lab. Like let’s work together. Let’s grow together type of thing. I don’t know what to call it. Co-working? We call it we we we don’t know the word
either. Like we change it every once in a while. We call it like we jam session sometimes. >> Jam session. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. It’s more like we’re throwing ideas out. We’re just seeing what works. We’re we’re just throwing Yeah. It’s not like a hackathon either, but it’s like yeah, a jam session. Like let’s share with each other. I like that. We’re going to have a jam session for 4 hours the day after. We can hang out afterwards as well. All right, Trent. Anything I miss? Before we say goodbye. >> been it’s been real. I appreciate you a lot. Well, thanks, bro. I learned a lot as well. So, I’m I love that insight with the onboarding, that that tip you
gave for all the audience and I love the freaking crazy paywalls that you showed off as well. Next week we’re going to have somebody from SocialPeta to talk all about ad intelligence and how do you make smarter decisions when you got real money on the line. So, you’re going to want to have to pay attention especially as you start to grow like I talked about. The App Store not so good about distribution anymore. So, you’re going to have to figure that distribution piece out and SocialPeta is going to help you with that as well. All right, join us every Friday, 9:00 a.m. Pacific. Trent, thank you so much.
I love it. It is tryhelium.com. Let them know you heard it on here and Trent’s going to hook you up. All right, guys. Have a good weekend. Bye. Trent.