| Source | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iOGvI5nRwQ |
|---|---|
| Readwise URL | https://read.readwise.io/read/01kv42z8rs41xx6e33bqxxa2xm |
| Readwise ID | 01kv42z8rs41xx6e33bqxxa2xm |
| Date | 2025-10-17 |
| Author | App Masters |
| Category | video |
| Cover image | https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1iOGvI5nRwQ/sddefault.jpg?v=68eeaa3d |
What is up AppNation? It is Steve P. Young, founder of appmasters.com, the place you go when you want action packed content related to helping grow related to helping you grow your app downloads and more importantly those revenues. I’m back from the revenue cat
app growth annual event. Amazing, amazing event. One of my favorite events of the entire year. So, if you didn’t get an invite or you’re thinking about going to next year’s, definitely go. Some of the highest caliber app founders are there and you get a tiny bit of the bigger companies, but a lot of bootstrap entrepreneurs, you know, that maybe raised some money, that are doing some phenomenal phenomenal work, all show up at that event. So, go check it out. And today, I’ve got a great guest. He’s
back. All right, he’s back. The first episode we did, he showed you how to build simple simple apps, validate them, what onboarding you need to get them to be profitable apps. Now, he’s back to share how he grew his own apps. I love a guy who just doesn’t talk about showing you how to build apps and actually has his own apps. That’s why I respect a bit more and that’s why we have our own own app portfolio. And he’s going to show you how he’s been able to scale his app to close to 1 million in ARR. So, without further ado,
let’s bring in Aleem. Aleem, welcome back to the show, my friend. What’s happening, Steve? Super excited to be back again today. You were a a huge inspiration for me and every time I come up here it feels super surreal, but I’m super excited to to jump right into this. Well, let me give you a proper intro. You are a four-time founder, former head of growth, head of mobile at PrizePicks
and you just told me that they recently sold for 2.5 billion dollars with a B. That’s amazing, man. So, congrats to you on that as well. And now, you know, we’re going to link up your previous episode. H, I don’t know if we’ve already done that, but yeah, he’s he’s shaking his head in the background. We’ve already done that and so we’re going to link up that previous episode. If you guys are well, check I would highly recommend you check that out as well. But Aleem, let’s talk about the app that you’ve been able to scale. Tell me about your your approach to
maybe validating app ideas and how you do that and then like building them. Absolutely. So, as you know, I ran Ambitious Labs, a mobile app accelerator for the last 2 and 1/2 years. We taught over 1,100 entrepreneurs how to build their own software products. About last year or early this year in January, I was like, “Hey, our program’s doing really well. Our students are crushing it. I need to get back and get my hands dirty and start building again.” So, in January I launched our venture studio, which is an arm of
Ambitious Labs, where we incubate our own software products and just like you said earlier, I didn’t want to be a guy that just taught people how to build. I wanted to show them that I could grow, sell and exit a company. At the same time, teach them what I’m doing in real time. So, in January I partnered up with a guy named William Rivera. William Rivera is really uh uh well-known influencer in the space in the space of Amazon and we partnered up and today I’m going to talk about um my
influencer led strategy and how builders out there can partner with influencers to find pre-validated ideas, latch on to existing audiences, latch on to existing traffic sources and work 80% less hard and have a very successful app. I’ll jump into the full playbook today. All right, let’s do it. What do you want me to go to next? You want me to show off the app or Yeah, I mean, I could I could just jump in and kind of talk about you know, where we went here, but um
So, as we all know, like there’s three ways to really get traffic to an app, right? There’s there’s ads, you know, you can run meta ads, you can run Apple search ads, you can partner with influencers, there’s app store organic. Am I missing any, Steve? Um yeah, no, that’s that’s pretty much it. Yeah. I feel like that’s that’s around the the couple ways to >> it’s pretty simple. It’s not that hard. Yeah. Um and oftentimes, you know, people have the ideas for an app, they don’t know how to validate it, but I think we all have
seen enough content from the boys like Blake Anderson and even you and and some of the rest of the app builders on on YouTube where we’re now looking at validation in a completely different way. How do you look at market idea fit or like marketing product fit, right? Not just like product market fit, but like people are now looking at marketing first, product second. Find audiences and find markets of people who are out there on the internet, maybe through influencers, through YouTube, through viral content
and then figure out how can you place a product onto the back of that marketing um to capture the intent of the user and just give them a product that they’re already looking for. So, a lot of people now are relying on viral content on Instagram, viral content on TikTok um and using that as free traffic, sparking curiosity in the um in the the viewer and then, you know, providing a product on the back end. What we have done is we’ve cracked the
code to working with very high scale influencers on Instagram. In our venture lab, what we do is we partner with influencers and creators who already sell a course or a digital product and we will then build them a mobile app or a SaaS. It could be a web SaaS or it could be a mobile app and we will help them position their mobile app or SaaS on the back end of their existing offers. For example, if you are a creator on Instagram and you sell a course or you run a webinar funnel, we’ll help you bolt on a SaaS that helps you achieve the goal that you’re already
selling to your audience. For example, if you’re a career coach and you sell resume review, well, a lot of career coaches have webinar funnels where they sell like, “Hey, we’re going to help you get a job in tech. We’re going to do it by doing, you know, this resume practice.” And then what we do is we come in and we say, "Hey, creator, you’re probably reviewing a lot of resumes on your own manually. Why don’t we build you an app that does it for your audience and all you need to do is market the app when you get on those webinars and you get recurring revenue, you get real enterprise value and you’re
building something that’s truly valuable and scalable." And creators are eating this up. So, that’s the strategy that we we used to scale Scam Profit from zero to 900 almost 900k ARR in literally 90 days. You want me to show off the app? Yeah, sure. Let’s do >> share my screen, too. Yeah. >> Yeah. Up to you. You want to control it. Yep, go for it. Yeah, so I mean, you have the landing page up here. Scam Profit is an app for Amazon business owners to find profitable products through a strategy called
retail arbitrage, where you can go to Costco, you can go to a grocery outlet, you can take out Scam Profit and scan the barcode of any product and it will tell you um how much that product can sell for on Amazon if you were to list it via FBA or if you were um uh posting it yourself. So, >> Interesting. it is for retail arbitrage and the idea is that you go to grocery outlet, you see that there’s a bunch of Dove soaps that are on sale for 49 cents and you buy the whole box. You know, you scan it
from from Scam Profit. It says, “Hey, Dove soaps are selling for 249 on Amazon. If you were to get it for 49 cents, you can plug in the cost and it will tell you after FBA fees how much profit you can make just by simply shipping it to Amazon.” Um and we charge $29.99 a month or $249 a year. I’ll talk about pricing today, too, cuz there was a huge pricing issue that happened that I’m sure a lot of people will find value from. But it’s a high ticket product because it’s for business owners and all you need is one profitable
product to pay back your, you know, entire year. So, we kind of priced the product of the app based on the value that you’re getting from the app. I think if you remember my last conversation with you, I I think I talked about like high ticket apps and like solving problems for rich people. Like I always try to build software that is appealing to an audience that’s that’s like richer. So, we look at business apps, prosumer apps. I try to stay away from like the calorie trackers and like the other consumer apps that a lot of people get into just because like
I don’t want to see a $2.99 subscription. Like I worked way too hard to just see $2.99 come in. Like I’m trying to see $20 bills fall from the ceiling and $100 bills raining from the from the sky. Like that’s what I tell my team. I’m like, “Yo, we’re only building apps where like people pay us 20 bucks or more.” Um >> it. So, yeah. I love it. I want to say hi to a few people and I want to get into how do you find these influencers and what type of market you should tackle, but it’s on Tuesday obviously. It’s on Tuesday. I don’t even know I clicked clicked on yours, H. All right, what’s happening
Chelsue and then Philly in the house. Kev’s is here, Adrian and then Joe says that Scam Profit website is beautifully designed. Right on. Thank you. All right, Aleem, why Scam Profit? Like what were you seeing? I love that whole model and I think it’s just a math, you know, business ultimately is just a math formula. The more customers, I mean, the more you can charge, the less customers you need to get to a million ARR, right? And so, it’s that simple of a math formula. But why Scam Profit? What were you kind of looking at when you were
like what category? How do you find that category? Yeah. You want to know the real story or the fake story? Yeah, give me the real one. Actually, give me the fake one. Let’s see how the real one pans out. The way that the answer probably should be answered is like how did I find out about this opportunity with Scam Profit? Well, um Look, let me just tell you >> one and I’ll guess if it’s a fake or real. Okay, give me the real one. Give me the
real >> just tell you the real one cuz I want people to know that this isn’t just like something that only I can do or something that I’m privileged to do. It’s something that anybody can do. Um I was at the gym here in Atlanta. I go to a very nice gym um and a lot of very well well-known, you know, I wouldn’t say rich people and influencers go to this gym. Um and I’m in the locker room and I saw this influencer that I knew and I was like, “Oh my god, I know that guy. I know who that is.” Like he’s he’s in the online education space. He teaches about Amazon. So in the locker room, I think
we both had our shirts off. I went to him and I go, “Yo bro, I know who you are. Like I’ve I I’ve seen your ads all over Instagram. My name’s Aliam. I was the former head of mobile at PrizePicks. If you ever want to build a mobile app, just hit me up. Like I would love to work with you to build an app.” He said, “Nice, man. Like nice to meet you.” He talked to me for a couple minutes, took my number, and we went our separate ways. Um what I want to teach everyone there is like right place, right time, take advantage of opportunities, and like don’t be afraid to like put your name out there. Cuz 2 weeks later, I’m eating dinner at my dinner table and
then my phone starts ringing. It’s him. He calls me and says, “Hey bro, I’m actually building a mobile app and I hired these developers on Upwork and they’re making me give them $10,000 before they hand over the codebase. I need you to help me.” And I was like, “Bro, I got you. Send me the Google Meet link.” So he sends me the Google Meet link. I jump in. I start handling these developers. I go, “Send me the GitHub repository.” I took over his codebase. I didn’t charge him any money. And then he goes, “Bro, like can you just take it over?” And I’m like, "Absolutely, bro. This is how much I charge. This is how much, you know, I I would want an
equity, blah blah blah." And we inked the deal like literally on that call because I was able to provide him value and get him out of being held hostage from these Indian developers. Not saying anything about Indian developers. I’m Indian as well. But I know that a lot of us have had some experiences, you know, hiring overseas. Um So anyways, I I was able to come in. Uh we partnered up on the project. And yeah, like he already had an audience. But the cool thing is is that ever since I’ve brought on Scam Profit and worked with William Rivera, um we’re getting
such inbound interest from like five or six more uh influencers and creators. We’ve actually already signed four new creators that most people have already heard of. We probably have 20 million followers combined across the portfolio of creators. We’re launching um a career product, a stock trading product, um a a personal finance product, um and then there’s one more that I’m blanking on right now. Uh that’s it, actually. Those three. Um and that’s all a result of having one of these creators come on the or come on to
our our studio and we blew it out of the water for them. And this creator himself has been introducing us to other creators. So that is how I actually met uh William and came up with the opportunity. But now if I were starting this from scratch, I would be looking at creators who already have existing audiences on Instagram and TikTok because these creators who have like 30K or more followers, they’re looking for something to sell. They know they can make content, but they don’t know how to make product a lot of the time.
They’re either getting hit up by people to do $200 posts for them. They’re either thinking about starting an online community like a Discord or like a uh you know, a paid community on school. And that’s kind of like not that cool anymore. Or they’re just going to become TikTok Shop affiliates and start drop shipping stuff. Those are the only three options that that what I like to call mid-cap creators have access to. Everybody wants to sell software. Everybody wants to build an app. But as you guys all know, building an app is super duper hard. So if you can come in
and provide them an interesting opportunity like, “Hey, I’ll build your app for you. You market it. Um we’ll go together. Um you’re going to have a property that generates recurring revenue that’s easy and fun to market. I’ll design it to have some viral moments in there so that you can make content with it.” Um that’s what creators are jumping on right now. And you know this, Steve. You just said your agency is doing really well because a lot of people are interested in building apps right now. Right? And so more and more people are on YouTube seeing how much people are making money with apps.
And apps right now are the are are what you should be selling to these creators. Mhm. I like it. The the couple of things I want to get to. You the pricing. Let’s start with pricing. First one, you said you brought it up when I was kind of showing off the website. And then I I got a follow-up question after that. Yeah, let me share my screen if you don’t mind. >> you go for it. I love it. show the real situation over here. So here’s our ARR chart. Can you guys see? You want me to share it? Yeah, please. Okay, here we go.
I mean, if anyone knows me, they know I just I dive right into the numbers. And if you want to call me a troll, let me refresh this page real quick um because I get called like I’m I’m faking a lot of this stuff because the numbers are so high. On my YouTube channel, people call me out all the time. But as you can see here, we were doing 540K ARR in about August. This is just one payment processor just so I can prove more. Uh we were doing 300K on a different payment processor. So about 800 total. But as you can see, we’ve been slipping really aggressively since then.
And the reason why is that we actually initially priced our product at $49.99 a month. Very expensive. It was $49.99 a month and we were getting very strong conversions. If you look at our um new account to purchase rate on Mixpanel, our conversion rate has stayed pretty damn flat even while changing the um pricing. Like check this out. We’ve even after changing pricing. When did I change pricing? We changed pricing about August. Um
in August, we changed pricing. And as you can see here, like conversion rate has barely slipped. October is still pretty early and a lot of conversions come in um like at the end of the month as well. So like I don’t expect this to stay that low. But you can see pricing or excuse me, onboarding conversion rate stayed the same. Why? Why did onboarding conversion rate stay the same if pricing went from $49 to now uh what is it? 24.99 or 29.99? >> 30 bucks. 29.99. Yeah. So we like almost reduced the price by 40%, but onboarding
conversion stayed the same. Why? Why is because the quality of the content that the influencer creates for us is so high quality that people are people trust him so much that they’re willing to pay anything to get access to the tool. That’s not the case when you’re converting via ads because ads are talking to cold audiences who don’t know you. All they saw was like one ad and they’re getting to your app. Therefore, the price sensitivity on what’s called a cold audience is very very volatile.
Your onboarding conversion rate could tank if you doubled your price. But for William’s app, it’s not because people know, like, and trust him. If you look at his ad library, he makes all these really awesome videos. Um he sends everybody to a live webinar funnel. This live webinar funnel is where he teaches about Amazon and and offers a training. On this live webinar is where he makes the first mention of Scam Profit. So at the time that somebody sees William and stays with him on a webinar for an hour,
sorry, this is not loading. Um they get all this content. It’s like a long-form sales letter where they’re learning about Amazon. You know, they read all this stuff. Then they save their spot for tonight’s live training. They talk to William for an hour on a live training. When William finally goes, “Hey, and I built this tool called Scam Profit where it helps you find profitable products using my retail arbitrage strategy. If you have a moment, just take out your phone real quick and look up Scam Profit.” He does this webinar pretty much every day or I don’t know. I think once a
week. And that’s why we’re able to convert such consistent traffic because everybody’s coming from a really high-intent traffic source. But uh the reason why we had to tank the price was because churn was super duper high. Like we were churning like 90% of our users. I’m not going to show the churn numbers um because we are improving them and we are going to uh take this app to market one day to sell and I just don’t want to put the churn numbers out there. >> sharing a lot of numbers. I appreciate that, man. Don’t feel bad.
um so on the churn, like we were churning a lot of users. But uh and we realized this. It was more of psychology than it was like pricing. We found that $50 a month was like somebody’s phone bill or somebody’s Wi-Fi bill or somebody’s TV bill. And that’s a sizable amount of money that leaves somebody’s account. And we were like what And people were saying, “Hey, we have a lot of bills to pay. We can’t pay the Scam Profit bill.” That’s literally what somebody put in a in a in a Discord chat. I was like, "Yo, why did somebody call Scam Profit a bill? We’re
just an app." But somebody literally thought it was a bill because of how high that price was. So the the psychology of pricing, we don’t think about that. We don’t think about how a pricing figure fits into the life of somebody. $10 a month sounds like a Netflix subscription. But $50 sounds like the bill for your phone. You know what I mean? Yeah. >> So somebody was like, “Hey, can you please reduce the price closer to 20 so that it feels like a subscription?” We were like, "What? That’s the craziest
thing I’ve ever heard." So we dropped the price to $24.95 and since then we’ve doubled our or excuse me, decreased churn by 50%. Um and our net LTV has been positive. So even though MRR has come down, l- uh realized LTV per paying customer is trending upwards. That’s awesome. Yeah. >> That’s awesome, man. You know what? That’s one of the questions I was going to ask is cuz I’ve, you know, I partner with I’m an advisor for a company called Breakthrough and they do this very similar model, but they do it for the health and wellness space. And so
they’ve got a lot of yoga people and they work with these influencers. And one of the things is to keep marketing going because it’s when the influencer like creates content and promotes it, you get a wave of downloads. But if they’re not constantly talking about the app, then the downloads start to fall. How have you been able to keep that consistent growth happening? Cuz I’ve seen the chart, like how do you keep it going? It’s funny because we’re not our app is based on one influencer right
now. We do have diversified traffic sources. Like if you look up Scam Profit on YouTube, there are other creators who make content about Scam Profit and we actually just launched a creator marketing program. We put about 10 Amazon creators into a group chat and if I can find the Figma design, we actually just launched this yesterday. So if you download Scam Profit, you’ll see this. But we we just launched a community feature in Scam Profit where you can like in the onboarding flow, click on whose community you came from. And yeah,
I have it right here. Let me share my screen again. >> Okay, cool. I was going to This and this is dope for all of those people who are like trying to scale like viral or organic via creators. So we just launched this feature yesterday where it says like whose team are you on or who referred you to Scam Profit. And you can select like what creator you came from. And so we’re launching all of these creators. All of these creators are doing viral short-form content and they run their own Amazon communities. Um they’re going to be marketing Scam Profit to all of their communities and
all of their public audiences. So when people get referred by them, you can join their team or you can mark them as a referral and we built an internal dashboard that’s going to pay them a rev share on all the people that they refer. So we make creators happy by making them money and we diversify our traffic sources so that we can get a higher valuation whenever we do decide to sell this mobile app. I I love the affiliate model too. You know, I was I’m sneaky and I’m like, hey, should we have that regardless of
whether we’re working with influencers or not? Cuz it kind of builds social proof. Like when I see that, I’m like, yo, you’re working with some like really you know, high-end people. That’s true. The social proof is true and I actually just learned this from one of my friends who runs Inner Lock Studios. It’s a app studio backed by Mark Cuban. He told me this joke. He was like, yo, what we learned in the app world is keep adding screens on your onboarding flow until conversion rates start dropping. Like he was like the more screens you have, the more people and like pictures
of people you can show on an onboarding flow, like the more social proof it it creates. So I agree with that wholeheartedly. >> Cool. I just thought of an idea for our app too. I’m going to I like this. I love this. Hey, I got a question from somebody. We run a community. I love these communities by the way, but we run a community of app founders and some one of the questions that I was asked was like, what is a when you’re working with affiliates, what’s a typical commission? Yeah. Look, a lot of people cheap out on
affiliate commissions. I believe in making people rich. I believe in building vehicles to make people a lot of money. Um I pay our first affiliate 25% of of revenue of excuse me, net revenue where net revenue is calculated as um revenue minus App Store commissions. We pay them 25% of that. Yeah, okay. I want and I always model out like what my creators can make. Like I want my creators to be able to afford like their house mortgage or like a new car payment
or like I literally say like, yo, I need you to make two or three thousand dollars a month. This is the type like this is what you need to do to make two or three thousand a month. So I like reverse engineer income because I truly care about making somebody money. No one’s going to keep working for you if you’re only making a hundred bucks or two hundred bucks a month. But they will if you’re paying their house mortgage every month. So you need to be invested in your in your creators and the people who are marketing for you. I want to say hi. Hi Jamie. Lian
Asper or whatever and then Licio is here as well. All right. Hey Lian, one of the things I love most and you know, that ties into the question about how do you keep marketing going is because I forget his name for Scan Scan Profit. What’s his name? >> William Rivera. William. William. William has a webinar funnel. He’s running ads. So it’s just part of his entire funnel. So that’s how you can kind of keep marketing going. Is that an element that you look for or a criteria you look for when you’re working with
influencers? Do they have are they running ads? Do they have a webinar funnel that’s going to be consistent so that, you know, I know I can get consistent downloads for the app? It’s not just about a webinar funnel. Yeah. >> What I look for is somebody who has successfully monetized their audience. There are tons of influencers out there who have lots of views. But you can have a million followers and not make a single dollar off your account. If you don’t know how to turn like attention into
clicks and conversions, you’re not going to be able to sell anything. So what I look for is an influencer or a creator who has successfully driven traffic from their page to another digital property. Um for example, like if you look at any creators um Instagram, if you see a link in their bio and the link in the bio is sending somebody to you know, a Discord or like a a course or a community and like you see that that community actually has people in it, that’s when you know that the creator can monetize
their traffic. Um or if you notice that the creator in their in their content is actually promoting a product very slyly or they’re doing an advertisement, like that’s when you know a creator has a conversion mindset. I I wouldn’t want to work with like meme creators who just know how to get a bunch of meme views because meme views have very very low engagement. You want to find a creator who truly knows how to convert attention into clicks more than the webinar funnel. Um the webinar funnel is definitely a sign that that creator has a lot of
money because webinar funnels are expensive to buy traffic to. Um that’s obviously like a whale type of client. If you can get somebody who has successfully ran ads to a webinar or a VSL funnel, that’s when you know that that person probably has money and cash flow. Mhm. I like it. Dude, this is awesome. The on the pricing side of things, I know one of the things we wanted to talk about was the pricing science behind turning users into loyal paying customers. Was anything beyond just you like figuring out lowering the price?
Was there anything beyond that that you wanted to cover? That was actually a lot of it was like don’t get greedy up front. Like it’s good to optimize toward um a lot of money, but I I would highly value like I would highly encourage founders to think about like how do you keep your users around longer? Not just like how do you take money from them quicker? I think um That’s it. >> the $49.99 a month was great. We got a
lot of money up front, but then we got people leaving and we were like, no, we don’t want you to leave. We’d rather we’d rather give you some of your money back. Don’t leave us. Like take take half your money back, but stay. And so we actually were scrambling for about 2 weeks to keep our users around. Um so that’s my advice is like focus on keeping users around in your early days um rather than taking a lot of money up front because you you want to build a a low churn business. For example, if we tried to sell Scam Profit at 800k ARR,
but we had the level of churn, we would not have gotten a valuation. Like I’m telling you, we would not have gotten a valuation. I would rather have 500k ARR and strong churn than a million ARR and really really bad churn. Does that make sense? Yes. Tell me why. Uh because if you have a lot of churn, it means your product doesn’t work. It means that people paid you up front because they believed in you and your marketing was good, but you got them to convert because of your marketing, but it means
your product sucks if they’re leaving. And you need both. You need good marketing and a good product. Otherwise you’re just like you know, a fancy bottle of water, right? The fancy bottle of water is $5 of whatever that crazy Saratoga water is, but it tastes the same, right? It’s like I got that water once because I was like, oh, the marketing’s going to let me try it, but I’ve never bought it again. I said I’ve tried it once, it just tastes like normal water. I won’t name the brand, but I’ve done the same thing. I’m like, they’re marketing everywhere and I was like, okay, it’s in a can. So I was like, okay, it’s interesting. I’m like, okay, well,
what’s the difference? The Kirkland one is just as fine for me. Absolutely. You nailed it. I love it, man. Now you said it the best. I think it is just that. Like we’ve seen a dramatic difference in our business when we were just kind of like, hey, let’s just break it down. Like even if you can take a bigger package and slice it up to a monthly offering that it be that becomes affordable, like the LTV of that user dramatically increases. Just you said it best. Like that’s why I wanted you to break it
down. Like if you can keep them longer, even if it’s a a lower ARR, it’s a highly scalable business cuz the highest churn, you said it too. It’s like you’re just relying on marketing. The marketing was great. And so when you pause marketing, guess what happens to the ARR? It goes dramatically down. 100% 100%. Yeah, and it’s just all about um yeah, prioritizing both sides of the coin for sure. So we’ve now invested a lot more into the product to keep people coming back. Um we do like monthly live
sessions with our users now where we like get on a call with them and we get their feedback. Um and that also has been a great That’s awesome. driver of retention. Like even if you just hit up your email list, excuse me, via OneSignal and you’re like, hey, we’re doing a live webinar. Like that’s enough to be like, oh, there’s like real people behind this. Like let me stay on and see what else they do. Adding a personality to the back end of the product has been really really good for our retention. Um even if people don’t attend your webinar, just the fact that like you’re
hitting them with some emails that have like a real person behind it. Like, hey, I’m Aleem. I’m CTO. And then you know, I would love to do a live session with you guys. I’m going to be live in the Discord, you know, next Wednesday at 6:00 p.m. The people who join that, they’re like, oh Oh god, this is so cool. Like we’ve never talked to a software company before. Like can you build this? And then they stay because we say, “Yeah, we’ll add that to the road map.” Um we’ve seen Yeah, we saw churn uh decrease just because of us starting those um live sessions.
Okay. Well, speaking of churn, we had a question right now. How do you How do you know what you should change in the app if churn is high? Runaway question. That’s a great question. There’s so many ways to answer that. Like >> Yeah. Number one, uh you should look at how much you charged because if you charged you know, maybe not enough or maybe too much. Like the value that your app provides was not good. Um you should talk to users and figure out
why they downloaded your app. Like that’s like the number one thing. Most times people who churn is for a couple reasons. Like uh the competitor is better. Uh number two, um the price is too high. Um and number three, the app didn’t have the feature that they wanted. Those are the three reasons that we see. So, we actually launched a cancellation flow into our app as well, which I can try to pull up. But what we did was like because churn was so high, we were We actually have it. If you don’t mind, I’m going to share it. Yeah, please. Um
And this is kind of a fake cancellation flow like in that Like let me tell you why. So, we have a profile tab. We have my subscription. You can go to my subscription, then click cancel subscription. We then um added some like data collection to figure out why people were canceling and this allowed us to figure out um you know, what we should prioritize. We found that a lot of people said they weren’t making sales, which just means that like their Amazon business was not doing well. A lot of people said found a better tool
for Amazon and then they would tell us what tool that they found. We actually know that there are competitors in the market and so uh people would say competitor is cheaper, competitor is better, too expensive for me, the app isn’t working as expected. And then we found that like when people said the app wasn’t working as expected, it was because they were using like a version of an Android that like our scanning SDK, like our our barcode scanner SDK wasn’t compatible with. So, we actually had to upgrade the barcode scanner SDK to to integrate with
like native device auto focus to make the barcode scanning a lot more accurate. That was something that actually helped the app actually work better. But all this to say, like we we did this cancellation flow and then we threw in a one-time offer. Like Love it. you know, before you actually cancel, let us see if we can, you know, retain you by offering you 50% off. Uh so then we give a user a 50% off offer. We get like 10% or 15% of cancellations to take this offer, which ain’t bad. Um
and then they go follow the steps below to finish the cancellation. They click manage subscription and then we deep link them into the subscription settings where they can just cancel. Yeah. >> But this this This has helped a lot for sure uh identify why someone should cancel and prevent 10% of people from canceling from the one-time offer. Yeah. I saw another app do exactly that and I’m glad you showed off yours because I didn’t want to show it off there because they I’m sworn to secrecy from Hey, some things when you when you crack
a code, sometimes you got to keep it to yourself because uh there’s a lot of whales out there who have money and have traffic and uh you got to be nervous in this space. Um >> Yeah. I’m just not nervous because we have moats. Like you can’t go copy William Rivera from me. You can copy my app. Go for it. But you’re not going to copy my my creators. You’re not going to copy my distribution moat. Um try to do it. They’re not going to cuz you can’t take care of them like I do. All my people make a lot of money uh because I I always look at how to take care of um
my marketers and our creators and keep them highly incentivized. Alem, you said it the the best way and you kind of just I want to make sure the audience heard it. You can’t copy my distribution moat. And I think too many feature too many people get caught up in like the feature, like what’s my moat? No, the feature. I’m like, “Yo, your distribution is your moat.” Like that is That’s how I feel. Like that is the the clear channel cuz it’s so easy. You know, before we hit record, I was like, "Alem, you know, I thought like apps are getting so crowded, but like because of AI, it’s becoming so easy. And because of AI,
there’s are all these keyword opportunities and app opportunities to go after." And so I’m like, “Wow, we like do it long enough and you know, now it becomes app Being in the app business is a great venue now.” And so But I I love what you said. The distribution is the moat. And that’s where I spend all my time now. You know, we hired a product manager named Zion. He’s an absolute killer. He takes care of handling, you know, my developers and I spend 80% of my time now managing, recruiting,
working with, building relationships, flying to Miami, you know, getting a cabin in the mountains to work with these creators just because I know if I I if I work with them, if I show them my face, if we build relationships, they’re going to keep pumping traffic. So, that’s where I’ve shifted all my attention. Wow. Wait, tell me about the strategy. You just You book the cabin, you pay for everything, you get them to come out. Is that what you do? >> No, it’s not like that. >> Wine and dine them? I just mean like uh Well, yeah, and and to work with these creators, you do have to like you know
adjust your lifestyle or like appeal to them. Creators love lifestyle. You know, they’re they’re creators for a reason. They make cool content. They sometimes drive flashy cars. Depending on how much money they’re already making, we’re very fortunate in that the level of creators that we brought have fantastic lifestyles. They attend masterminds. They they uh are in the online money business. Um and so I’m fortunate enough to get to network with them in, you know, places like Miami, SF, you know, other places as well in New York City. Um you know, like we’re friends with with the people behind WAP
and behind Fanbase. Um and so we’re just in like the creator economy and um yeah, you just have to show your face and be networking and be where these creators are because they’re kind of like this clique as well. Like all the top creators know each other. Um just like how you and I know each other. Like all the top creators in the space, like we know Steven Crovada, we know all the other app guys because like we’re just a few of us, right? And we we all share the same passion. Eventually, maybe we all get to hang out. Like for example, like if you go to MAU, you’re
going to see you, you’re going to see Steven, you’re going to see me, you’re going to see all the other app people. So, you got to be where your market is um for them to take you seriously and and know, like, and trust you. So, the strategy is not like paying for their like flights and stuff. It’s more just like being where they are and showing them that you’re part of their crew. Love it. I love it. Hey, Jason. Hey, what’s up, brother? Help. Keep up the amazing work. Alem is very informative. Love this guy. Awesome. Thanks, Jason. And then Artuera, thank you for the jacket. >> going to come in with the jacket, too.
That thing’s fresh, bro. And you got the fall drip You got the fall drip already going in time. I appreciate that. >> drip, I should say. I love me a fall. I’m like, “Okay, I can layer now.” All right. Kady Teekom, I think. How to collect data for cancellation? Are you using Firebase? Yeah, absolutely. Just toss all that in a Firebase collection and then just export it once a week or once every 2 weeks and run it just upload it to Chat GPT. Say, “Hey, rank all the reasons people are canceling.” And it will tell you. Alem, you know what I love about you,
too, is just the fact that you keep everything so effing simple. And that’s the the main takeaway I took from our first interview. It was like, “Yo, you don’t need a complex app. You don’t need all these features. Just one simple feature along as you have distribution, that’s enough.” And you And it’s like, “Nope, Firebase. Nope, Mixpanel.” You know, like it is pretty simple, your tech stack. Don’t overthink the tech. Too many people overthink the tech. Yeah, for sure. What is your tech stack, by the way? It’s always Flutter. Flutter, Firebase, um Mixpanel.
Uh we are now moving to Adapty. We uh We’re really excited about Adapty. I know that you also are an advocate for Adapty. Um but we’re moving away from from RevenueCat. My other app, Closure Coach, we’re migrat- We just migrating to Adapty because they have better analytics. They have better um integrations with OneSignal. They have integration with Meta Ads, integration with pretty much everything. I love their refund saver. Um overall, and I love their paywall builder as well. I think RevenueCat is a bit clunky. Um I think RevenueCat is like
second mover on all the stuff that Adapty’s been doing. So, uh we’re now moving everyone to Adapty and I’m also encouraging my community to look at Adapty as well. Um but um for Closure Coach, we actually just yesterday said that we need to migrate some of our back end to SQL. So, we are going to start saving information into a SQL database. Particularly information that we need um like data science capabilities for. For example, like we want to be able to crunch numbers from like
um a collection of data that we’re we’re generating. And all this data that we’re generating is like numbers and performance data. So, you can’t really do data science with with Firebase. So, if you want to build a software product that has structured data that you can run queries on, that you can compute on and run data science on, I would recommend a SQL-based database like like uh um uh Supabase. And so, we’re going to be moving some of our data to Supabase. And then my um head of data, um Taylor, is
going to hook that up to a Tableau server and he’s going to start running a bunch of computations on that. Um so, that’s the only reason I would say Supabase, but most consumer apps can totally be built with Firebase. Love it. Dude, last question I had for you is like you got Ambitious Labs. You got this portfolio stuff as well, managing all these creators. And I know that that can come with some problems, too. How are you Like this is a selfish question. How are you going about managing all these projects? Like tell me how you’re managing the people, the team.
We We bring people like I actually learned this the hard way. I know it says right here solo founder and everybody like thinks like solo founder is the right way to go. Like do everything yourself. I did that for a year. I got really burnt out. And what I’ve learned is like hire great people who want to be business owners and make them business owners. Pay them nicely, turn them into you know, owners and delegate, delegate, delegate. Like Ambitious Labs, we have a great CEO that’s running Ambitious Labs
right now. My my app accelerator, that’s been fully delegated to a CEO who reports to me as the chairman or the board member. He runs the entire operation. You know, we brought in a product manager named Zion from who actually was working at DoorDash, very very very talented product manager. He’s managing the day-to-day developers. We have Taylor who is kind of COO running B2B sales, running pretty much all like the financial operations. And then myself more face of the brand, partnerships,
brand building, distribution. So we’ve built kind of this holding co of mobile apps and the education arm just by hiring great people and delegating and paying them nicely. Okay. I got We got to talk afterwards. So I’m going to hit you up a little bit later, too. >> Yeah. No, it was it’s definitely hard and it’s really weird to think about like having somebody else run your business. But I didn’t realize like but like everybody wants to be a business owner but nobody wants to fork up the cash. Like so if you can pay them the
cash and make them a business owner, it’s like oh my god, you get to hit two of their birds in one stone. You know what I mean? And I never thought about that. Like it’s a hack. It’s like make someone a business owner but salary them. Like it’s it’s pretty cool. No, I I like that. How do you I mean, do you have any interview questions or how do you test somebody to you take over a company that you build? Like how did you know that Sorry to cut you off, but you find someone who’s failed. Like you find people who just serially fail. Uh that’s how at least what I’ve seen. Like
find someone who has failed a few times because you know like what actually needs to happen and they’re hungry. Somebody who’s failed a couple times are hungry and you know the the playbook. It depends what type of operator you want. If you want an operator that’s going to take you from a million to five, you need an like you need to find someone who’s done that. But if you want someone just to hold your business where it is and just make sure it doesn’t die, just find someone who’s failed, who’s hungry enough and give them your playbook and say, "Hey, don’t mess this up. Just run this playbook 1 2 3 and it’s very hard
to mess up. And if you do, then there’s something else wrong. I like it, bro. Very educational. One thing I love that I’m going to give William a shout out as well. I want to put this and I believe in this, too. You know, it’s like do the work, give up the the deadline. You know, I put my mom on a jet. Trust the what, [ __ ] the when, never forget the why. And it is the when that gets most of us in trouble because we always expect it to come a lot faster than it actually does. But you got to trust the what, never forget the why because the when is going to screw you
up most of the time. Yeah, Will is a big family guy. And also and I also learned my my I’m not trying to take credit. William is the guy who showed me the power of paying people nicely, the power of empowering people, the power of making your people rich. Like what’s that jet to him and his mom if the guys who work with him, work for him, you know, can’t ride in it with him, right? Like he’s the one who said, "Yo, bro, like find the best people possible and expect
the best level of work. But you have to be willing to pay them the best level of pay. So I I love that about William and I learned that mindset from William. So shout out William. Amen. This has been very educational. This is why I love creating this content. It’s because I’m learning alongside everybody and I’m getting inspired by everybody along the way. All right, Aleem, let’s get into Anything else you want to cover before we get into the audit side of things? No, I think that’s good. I mean, I think
we covered a lot. We covered a lot and I mostly just wanted to come on and talk about the influencer led strat. It does seem like a high barrier of entry, but what I will say I’d rather I’d rather see you spend two months knocking on influencers’ doors for two months to land one influencer than you spending two months trying to figure out how to run ads or trying to figure out how to do organic. Like all it takes is one reply, one Zoom call, one good influencer and you have the traffic you need. So the the risk to
reward is is is much higher, I think, when you’re doing outreach to influencers. I love it. Or you can be like Ethan, Pascale Sabbah, and I saw him at the Red Duck event, as well. And he he was the influencer. He created the content. He I felt like he created a whole new category. So you can find the influencer or become the influencer. But like Aleem said from the very jump, it’s super simple. There’s getting distribution comes down to like four key channels and that is it. You can do it paid, you can do it organic, you can do it through an influencers and partnerships. And that really I don’t
know if there’s anything else beyond just those two those you know, under five, let’s just say, for sure. Absolutely. All right, bro. Well, let’s get in to the app audit side and we like to start off every app audit with some dad jokes. Till somebody complain about that audio, we’re going to fix that a little bit later. Maybe it’s just on my side. All right, Aleem, would you want to go first or you want to go second? I’m happy to go first. All right, go ahead, bro.
Why do Android phones love coffee? Why do Android phones love coffee? Tell me why. Because they need to stay Java enabled. I love it. Okay, Aleem, what do you get when you cross a grumpy sheep with an angry cow? A grumpy sheep and an angry cow. You’re going to want you’re going to
want to watch the audio I mean, the video for this punchline. All right? A chicken. A chicken? No, it’s a bad mood. Moos. That’s going to go well with the kids. All right. All you got to do is put S if you thought my joke was better and put A if you thought Aleem’s joke was better and we’re going to pick one lucky vote giver for an IndieAppSanta promo on us. All right, Aleem, let’s get into this app and he wants our your your primarily your feedback on monetization.
Sweet. Which by the way, I’m going to try an IndieAppSanta promo for my other app here pretty soon. So I’ll keep you posted on how that works. I’m probably going to make a YouTube video about it in case anyone wants to do that. But um Journal Reflectory. Well, right away, the title is not keyword optimized unless people are searching for Reflectory and Journal. Like I think that’s too too big of a keyword. I would recommend optimizing those keywords. Um like Journal,
like safe space journal or something that’s a bit more niche. Like definitely look in the App Store search console to figure out what people are searching for. Reflect on your day effortlessly, quick and easy voice or text reflections, daily check-ins to boost mindfulness, small habit, big impact on your mental health. I think that first slide is a waste of space. Like I would rather see a a picture of an app, like a small picture of an app and then a big headline. Your headline needs to sell an outcome. I think you’re selling a bit too much of a of the features. Like quick and easy voice or text
reflections. Like that’s not what people want. People want, you know, uh boost mindfulness, you know, increase mental health. Like there’s some sort of outcome that you need to sell. So I would recommend like making that first screenshot like a picture of a phone and then a big headline that sells the big outcome and then you would have supporting outcomes on slide two, three, and four. So like your safe space to reflect every day. I think that one’s pretty decent. A journal that writes itself with AI. Interesting.
I’d rather you figure out like what behavioral like problem your your user is having. Like do they not like typing or do they not give enough detail, right? And if that’s the thing, it could be like um document your day with little effort. You know what I mean? Like you want to show like the benefit of like how they’re doing it currently versus like how your app can help them. Um turn your thoughts into a personal journal, private, secure, and built. I also think this is missing a niche. Like you’re you’re just trying to
build a journal app when I think you should be a journal app for a specific type of journaling. That’s what’s going to get you the organic and like the blue ocean that you need to be successful in something like this. So what do you think? No, I love it. You said it all. I mean, journal’s just way too competitive. You’re never going to beat Day One. They’ve been just on it for forever. And then you got the Apple Journal app. So the way I always think is bottoms-up, right? How do I especially if you’re relying on organic, how do I rely How do I take a more of a long-tail niche keyword? Like you said,
journaling for who? And then slowly start climbing the ranks. Whereas most people, especially if they’re trying to rely on organic, they start at the very top. And then you’re like, “Bro, that’s where everybody’s at.” Like that’s where the newbie ASO people are at. They’re just trying to target the obvious keywords. You’re going to have to find the more like niche keywords. And until Apple fixes their freaking API, the one tool I’m using right now is App Figures and then kind of putting in the main keyword and then putting going to related keywords. And that’s where you
can kind of try to find these like, you know, maybe it’s a bullet journal, these other niche keywords that you can target. App Follow used to be it until the Apple API kind of broke down on us. And so it’s harder to find these niche keywords right now. But we’re using a combination of App Follow, App Figures, and App Tweak to do keyword research right now. You I’ve seen the votes come in for the jokes and spoiler alert, man, you’re dominating. I haven’t seen one single vote yet. So I owe you something. Damn.
I know. I just had to throw in the joke the the Android one. You freaking techies just Oh man, that’s ridiculous. I thought my joke was pretty good, too. I did I thought I’d get one. All right, let’s get into the app itself and let’s help them with the main thing. I think um Rody might be here. Hey Rody, is this you? This is your app, bro? I all let’s see. Let’s see if it’s him. Okay. All right, I’m going to go through the onboarding. You tell me, just jump in
anytime. So, your wellness journey, your mental wellness journey very AI-driven. Get tailored insights. Gentle prompt. Private community. >> Like I think you just need to get I need you I need you need to spend time really uh niching down. Like that those first couple pages like really need to speak to a niche. Mhm. This onboarding looks pretty decent. What’s your primary goal? Nice. Okay. Knowing yourself is a bit Yeah, nice. Trusted by thousands of users. What do you think about having a thousands of
users if you can’t say millions of users? Um I would say something like I I mean I think if you actually have thousands of users like the thousand is fine cuz it’s actually very legit. Like not a lot of people want to use an app that has millions of users. Like some people see value in like a small app like this. Um however, I wouldn’t even say a thousand plus users. I would say trusted by um and for example at Closer Coach, my other AI sales training app or even Scam
Profit, I would say trusted by um a thousand plus Amazon business owners or trusted by Amazon business owners worldwide because that appeals to a specific niche. And people don’t want an app that users have. People want an app that people like them have. So, you got to niche down more and speak to a uh a specific type of person. Like trusted by a thousand plus people with ADHD. Trusted by a thousand plus you know um vegan bodybuilders. That type of
stuff. Yeah. Perfect, dude. Love it. What’s the highlight of your day? Oh. Talking. Hanging out with Steve. Aleem, don’t you step on my thing, bro. Uh How do you usually question your How do you plan to use your day? Maybe once a day, multiple times. I don’t know. Well, one thing I’ll say to this entrepreneur is like you have a very good product. What you need to do now is
reposition the marketing. That’s all you need to do. Yeah. >> Um but you’ve done the hard work. Let’s see. About 10 minutes. What are you grateful for? And and also another thing that I tell everyone is I don’t even care what your onboarding flow looks like. Show me the Mixpanel funnel report. Like show me how many people are making it through this onboarding. How many people land on your paywall. Then we’ll talk. I actually
would prefer to see that before I see your actual onboarding flow. I love it, dude. Yeah, I’d say the same thing. I was like, “What’s your Before I start, let me see your data.” Cuz I have a lot of opinions, but I want to be data-driven, too. I love it. Absolutely. Like I had a guy yesterday in my growth in my growth community. He showed me his Mixpanel report. He’s like, “Hey, I’m not getting a lot of purchases.” I look at his funnel report. This man is converting 22% of of sign-ups to purchases. And I go, "Bro, just cuz you
have four purchases or or five purchases doesn’t mean like you have a problem there. You need more downloads, bro. You’re converting 22%. That’s fantastic. So, um always look at the data. Yeah. And this is super cool. Like you’ve done this this entrepreneur has done a really good job with the dopamine like adding some visual effects through the experience to keep users engaged. That’s that’s that’s a really good thing that you’ve done. Um and then your paywall here. Yeah, what do you think about it? Looks like there’s no trial, either.
The trial’s going to be tough. I’m not sure if I talked about this on my last uh call with you, but we saw a a 66% decrease in conversions without offering a trial. Uh so, we we kept the trial on. We were only converting 10% from like download to paid. Um and now we’re converting like 28% download to paid when with a trial. So, I highly recommend a trial, especially for early apps. Yeah. I I agree. And we’ve seen similar numbers. And what I would say to Rody Rudy, I’m
going to call you Rudy. Then he said, “I actually stopped the trial but planning to get it back because of form perform better.” Yeah. This is the way that we’ve seen work really well with trials, especially if you’re building if you’re pushing the annual. Hey, we offer you 7 days for free so you can start journaling and start your journaling jour- whatever, right? Day one, start with this. Day two, do that. Day four, build a habit of journaling. You can give that. You’ll get a reminder and then you hit them with the paywall. And just adding these two screens before
your paywall has increased conversions for most of our clients. >> Steve, can I tell you something? Yeah, please. I I saw you make a video about this and the founder the founder was a woman, I think, and it was >> Bro, so I literally went the next week and did that same thing in my other app, Closer Coach. And we doubled our conversion rates just by adding those two screens. Yeah, it’s beautiful. Now, I I I love Yeah, it was I think it was Ivy or Christine. Sorry, Christine or Ivy, but I just saw them in New York as well. But those guys are doing amazing work at at Resemble. >> Yeah. I highly recommend that that those
two screens because it’s true like people don’t just want to be like hit with a paywall. They they want to be eased into it. Yep. I love it. And you could even test a hard paywall. And look, Aleem uh Rody has this little pricing offer, too. Limited time offer for an hour. >> See, what I love about these technical builders that are in your community is like they do all the hard stuff. Like they do all the stuff that I haven’t done cuz I’m a marketing first builder. >> Right. I still haven’t even done a a one-time offer like that. Yeah. Like I
don’t have this type of limited Like they do all the hard things that I haven’t done. And it’s so cool because bro, whoever built this app, you have all the right pieces. You need to fix your top of funnel. That’s the only thing you need to fix is redo your top of funnel, App Store screenshots, keywords, positioning, and messaging. Those are the four hard things that a marketer needs to do. But you got to look put You got to be step ready to step out of your comfort zone, put your marketing hat on. Do those four things and I promise you this app will print. I love it. I love it. And I you said it
best, distribution. That’s the moat. A lot of people like especially developers, “Oh, I got to build this feature and this No, it’s What’s your distribution?” Yeah. Sweet app, though. Nice job. Yep, I love it. Let’s see, somebody had a great compliment for you that I wanted to throw out there. Oh, yeah. Chelsea says Aleem dropping bombs, bangers. Partner with influencers, add cancellation flow for feedback, thousands of user niche. That was brilliant, by the way. I love that. Thank you so much.
Awesome. Glad you liked it. Speaking of awesome people, H my man said, “Hey, it’s Ivy.” And he’s on top of it, man. He’s like, “It’s Ivy, not Christine.” So, shout-out to Ivy. That one is a great episode. We had to, you know, uh we had to take it down, but obviously it’s a great episode just to protect Resemble because they shared some amazing insights on there. But H, I know I lost. So, let me learn. I I got Where’s my womp womp? I don’t have a womp womp.
There you go. I have a womp womp right there. But let’s pick a winner for our Indie App Santa promo. Spin that wheel, baby. Let’s go. And the winner is Transkript app. Yeah, somebody knew. Transkript. Just Transkript. I wonder if it’s the same Transkript there Transkripto. This is it? Yep, this
one. Yeah, I got dominate. So, congratulations, Transkript. Just reach out to us steve@appmasters.com and then I’ll put you in touch with our team to get it all set up. All right, Aleem, you got time for one more, bro? Absolutely. Okay. What do you use to see onboarding conversions? Yeah, we already covered this, Mr. Zag whatever. Mixpanel. Aleem said it. You can I mean, have you used Firebase for it? We’ve we’ve tested Firebase, but we like Mixpanel the best as well. Uh we use Mixpanel for onboarding
conversions. Yeah. Only Mixpanel. Yeah. Yeah. Just because like their their their free plan is really good. Yeah, Adapty has something in there as well that you can see the the funnel. I’ve seen it with another client of ours so that that they do tracking. >> You use Adapty also? You do, right? >> I have it for one of our apps that we purchased. They had Adapty and so we just ended up keeping Adapty and then the other apps that we’ve built that is along the same lines of this other app that we purchased, we use Adapty for that. But we use both, RevenueCat
Adapty. I think I want to check out Superwall. >> which one you like better. I think from a paywall perspective, you’re absolutely right. Adapty has a way better paywall builder. And then a lot of indies are moving to Superwall just for the paywall builder itself. Mhm. They’ve got some cool features. So, I’ve heard it all. I like them all. I use them all. I have them all of in my apps. Friends with all of them. Yeah, I feel you. All right. Well, speaking of distribution, let’s get into Red Tomatoes. We’ve got Kenny’s app right here. Whoops, let me bring it up to
stage. Cross-platform steps community. Don’t even know what that means. Have you ever wanted to challenge your friends or work colleagues but have a different phone or fitness hardware to each other? Do you want to run company-wide fitness challenges? Well, you can with Red Tomatoes. Okay. So, I guess it’s it’s almost feels like a B2B play. Aleem, what do you think? >> Yeah, I don’t know what this app You need just a little Don’t know what this app does. Cross-platform steps community. Red Tomatoes play together, multi-activities, Google sign-in. Yeah,
I mean we need to figure out what this app does and why it does the thing that it does. So, like cross-platform steps community. I imagine like it’s for people to step together. So, like Like, this is just super technical. Your cross-platform cross-ecosystem activity competition community. Like, bro, this is a perfect example of somebody who’s so technical that they they feel that they need to sell the most technical
part of this product. Like this is where like technical people and marketing people like are very um juxtaposed. Like Yes, 100%. That’s not what we’re selling. People don’t care about the features. Like people care about what it does for them. So, like red tomatoes. Step with your friends, get healthier, reduce mental health, reduce likelihood of cancer, reduce, you know, likelihood of disease, reduce fat, you know, that’s like what people want to buy. Um
this is super cool that you have all these features, but like that’s not what people care about. People want a certain outcome or they want a certain way of doing something. That’s like what comes to my mind first. Yeah. I mean, if it it feels like it’s more of a B2B play play just cuz I read, do you want to do you want to run company-wide fit- fitness challenges? Now you can. So, like talk about that, right? Like the platform for if you’re talking to business owners, like challenge, you know, start your own company-wide fitness challenge.
Yeah. >> Available on all devices, blah blah blah blah. And that’s then you’re selling to the business owner versus the consumer, but this is Liam’s at his best. You’re you’re too technical and you need a put your marketing brain on. Chat GPT the back crap out of this, but right now I don’t know what your app technically does. So, I can’t help you get more users in this regard. And if you’re trying to reach out to like if it’s a B2B play, then reach out to HR people. Like Liam says
it best, he’s like, "Look, I we still do webinars. They’re close to a million ARR and they’re doing the webinars trying to talk to real people because real people like Liam I don’t know if you agree or disagree, but I love getting feedback from real people. Why? Like better than a form. I get to engage your excitement. I get to engage and just see how you react to what I’m saying. If you’re like, “Mhm. Mhm. Oh, that’s cool.” Or you’re like, “Oh, wow. Really? I didn’t know that. That’s cool.” Then I know I’m on to something where if you’re just
like saying that’s cool without any type of like real excitement, then you might just be ni- be a nice to me. So, just because you’re saying that’s cool doesn’t mean that it is that cool. You might just be trying to be nice to me. Absolutely. I totally agree. Talk to people, understand who your market is. If it’s really B2B, I think that’s actually really cool, too. Just like speak to the B2B. Like run community or run com- uh run company step competitions, you know encourage your employees.
You know, make your employees healthier. Like that should be your tagline and then your distribution should match that. Yeah, reach out to the folks at Rabbit Cat Adapti like Superwall. Like, "Hey guys, you know, I built this app using your technology. Like I would love to figure out ways that we can integrate it to and have a revenue cat or Adapti or Superwall like fitness challenge and we could do it through my platform, Red Tomatoes. Like you know what I mean? Like the just talk to them. That’s it. All right. >> Absolutely. Totally agree. Well, Aleem, thank you so much for coming on again. This was amazing again,
part two. So, I can’t wait for part three. The website, if you want to learn how to build profitable apps, it is ambitiouslabs.io. Ambitiouslabs.io. You can build your own app without any code. There’s a little offer that we have if you use our link in the description below. And Aleem, if the audience wants to follow you and say thank you for coming on, do you want to send them anywhere else? Yeah, I have a YouTube channel. Uh you can look up Ambitious Aleem on YouTube. Um I can even um make sure that
we have a link somewhere. Yeah, let’s put that in there, H. Um Stephen and I work closely together on a lot of stuff. So, um you uh can access my YouTube channel and I just talk about my journey building these software products and I get down into the weeds um mostly just around like marketing and growth engineering cuz that’s primarily what uh the experience I have is in. So, definitely will would love to have you on the YouTube as well. Yeah, bro. I would love to come on. Congratulations. Uh the YouTube channel
looks great. You want me to pull it up? Is that okay? Sure, if you’d like to, yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay. Just put Ambitiouslabs is the channel or just You- YouTube Ambitious Aleem and you’ll find that as well. Really great videos right here. And like I said from the very jump, I love a guy who only not only talks about the apps, but also does it themselves through Scan Profit as well. All right. Cool. I have a little thing that’s showing you all this stuff. That’s pretty cool. I was looking at that, too. Yeah. I was like I could see
you looking at it and I was like, all right, hopefully he doesn’t mind that it’s there. >> No, it’s cool. It’s really cool. That’s why I like talking to real people. That’s why I I can engage. I can see what Aleem was looking at and all that stuff as well. All right, guys. All those are linked up in your favorite podcast app. H, like the man he is, he’s going to update all of that and link it to Aleem’s YouTube channel as well. Narek’s Narek get to see you. Thanks, guys. Great live streaming. Live stream every Friday. H, I forget who’s coming on next week.
Help me. Come on in. Who’s on? Okay, so next week is Kunal Nayyar from Oh, yeah. the Big Bang Theory guy, the Raj. Yeah. So, he launches new app and he will be talking all about the how he launched this new app and what all the ideas he got for the >> Yeah. Yeah, we got the Big Bang Theory guy coming on to share his app journey with us. So, join us every Friday 9:00 a.m. Pacific and that’s it. H, anything else you want to say? Take us out. No, I’m good.
All right. Bye, H. Come on, take us out. >> Bye, guys. All right. Thanks. See you next week.