| Source | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODAKIp9Nbjo |
|---|---|
| Readwise URL | https://read.readwise.io/read/01kv43078jnjeg106fe8y54ttm |
| Readwise ID | 01kv43078jnjeg106fe8y54ttm |
| Date | 2025-07-25 |
| Author | App Masters |
| Category | video |
| Cover image | https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ODAKIp9Nbjo/sddefault.jpg?v=68805f31 |
What is up that nation? It is Steve P. Young, founder of atmaster.com and this is the YouTube live stream. You want to tune in every Friday because I’m going live most Fridays and I’m in Lake Tahoe right now because my son my daughter has
a softball tournament a little bit later. We ended up winning a championship last week and so we’re in Lake Tahoe and I’m here no matter what bringing it to you. But today we got an amazing guest. She’s already here with me but before I bring her in officially she’s been able to achieve over 7 million downloads for just one of her apps using her ASO strategy and a little bit of Google Ads as well and she’s going to really break down her ASO strategy along with her Google Ads
strategy to help you really win at Google Play. So without further ado, she’s already here but let’s hit that intro intro video. Fatima, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for inviting me. No, I’m super excited to have you on and congratulations on the amazing success that you’ve had so far and thank you so much for being so detailed with some of
the strategies that you’re going to be covering with us today. But why don’t we start with this because I know you put a presentation together and part of it I guess actually let’s go straight into it because part question was what made you get into the app space? Okay, thank you. Thanks for having me. Uh well, uh this is the presentation I prepared and I wanted to start like uh I was in this business for like about 10 years and I was used like to building
Android and I iOS apps. And Uh, one of my Android apps reached 7 million users as you said and mostly organically. But journey didn’t didn’t start with like a big team or funding or even access to the basics. Because uh, at first when I started this I was in Iran and I didn’t have access to like even credit card or debit card or international uh, you know, fine payment
systems. Uh, however, uh, I was figuring things out and you know, I was learning, building and testing. And uh, you know what uh, what really sparked with me uh, from the beginning was the book that you know, the App Empire Chad Mureta. Yeah, it taught me like uh, it showed uh, the way, you know, it changed the way how I see the
app market. And it gave me permission to like dream bigger. I love it. When did you read that book? Cuz it that book’s been around for a long time. >> Yeah, like you know, about 10 years ago. Oh, 10 years ago. Okay, roughly around the same time I did too. No, I just saw Chad at MAU and in Vegas and it was really good to see him in person cuz we’ve done some live streams together in the past and so I recommend you guys go check him out on our channel. He’s good good stuff good. Yeah, he’s like you. >> good. Yeah. Yeah, no, it was really cool
to see him in person. Yeah. And you know, in between all those challenges I made one promise to myself that I would never disappoint on my journey. No matter how hard or how slow it gets, you just have to keep you know, going. And then this is I that’s what I thought that this is how the way you turn an idea into millions of users or maybe dollars. Mhm. I like it. I like it.
I’m starting the live stream now. We are live, okay? And then Tom Rowlands says this book is amazing as well. Fatima, did you write that on your arm or something? Like keep going, you know? Because I have these days where I’m just like, “What am I doing?” And it is like, yes, you know, 12 years later you’re like a very success, but like, you know, how do you see keep yourself going when there are those tough days, too? Uh you know, when you if you want to sit like sit down and looking for motivation
uh it may not work out. So, when I’m down or I just don’t know what to do, I keep working and then ideas and like the emotional results come to you when you just start beginning. I love it. Please name that book. It’s called App Empire. You can find it. I think it came out in 2012 or 2013, somewhere in that range, but yeah, it was the book that a lot of app especially those of us who’ve been in the space for a very long time, we
usually start with that book, too. Yeah, exactly. It was like after my graduation, so I was just graduate I didn’t have any idea what to do, so I received this book as a gift. I didn’t even buy it and it was translated into Persian. Uh-huh. That’s amazing. What a story. Like it doesn’t matter where you start off with, you know, you can still get to where you are today. Exactly. Love it. Do you want me to go to the next slide, Fatima? Yeah.
And uh you know, I said that I started from Iran, but now I’m in Dubai. Mhm. And I love it here. It’s so good for like if you’re an app entrepreneur or an investor because it’s really have a good tax-friendly policy. And also like you know, uh also the safety is so important for me as a woman. Here you can like go anywhere, anytime, and it’s just safe. Yeah. Well, congratulations, Fatima. Yeah, thank you.
Well, uh as you can see, right here is like uh the statistics of my app, which has about 7 million installs, and uh like the conversion rate, which I’m going to speak about it in the next slides. I’m going to talk about like this ASO strategies, uh step-by-step. One of them is in the next. And the first one, you know, as everybody knows that you need to like have the best high-converting general ASO, have the best name, short
description, long description, screenshots, feature graphics, and also developer page, which is so important. Even the image, like the cover image of a developer page, uh it’s going to like uh the keywords that you’re using in that, it’s important. Mhm. And the second one that we used like a bit more different is competitor competitor keyword analysis, which uh we used the parameters H L and G L that you can see in the next
Yeah. What is that? Uh yeah, in the next slide. Yeah. Uh you know, you can find keywords like using ASO tools and uh by uh checking competitors, but there’s one trick in between that there are like users in some countries that speak multiple languages. And when you’re adding these parameters at the end of the links, you can say like I’m uh
targeting users in this country, uh which like uh their um mobile language, their iOS uh you know, the language they used for their mobile is different. You know, for example, AL means host language and GL means location. For example, if a user is in United States, but uh their uh language of their phone is Arabic. Mhm. >> As two different screenshots, and some apps are localizing. I love it. And that’s where
I That’s almost where, you know, what you talked about, Fatima, like the custom store listings. That’s where it comes in. So, you can have multiple custom store If I’m understanding this right, multiple custom store listings in the US with different languages. Uh yes, you can, but uh we use keywords in our experiments. In experiments, you can specifically mention like uh these users from these countries with these languages. Uh I like it. Okay. >> store listings, yeah. Okay. You want me
to go to the next one? Yeah, of course. And in here, uh we tried a lot of experiments, and we actually started uh using different keywords, different uh names, screenshots. And uh after trying a lot of them, uh we could reach like this conversion rate, which was 68%. Wow. That’s interesting. >> Yeah. Yeah, that was so huge for us. Fatima, like if I can go back, how are you using
this? Are you just putting different languages in So, you find a popular app, you change the HL, which is the What do you call it? Is it the language? Yeah, interface language, host language, and then GL is the geo, right? Yeah. This is the way we try to find the keywords. You know, for example, in Google Play, not in the mobile app, in the in the browser. When you search for it, you can see some apps are like near to the apps which are not like big,
huge, but they are uh ranking for these uh like keywords, like AI, which is a tough keyword to rank. >> Mhm. In this case, we can analyze those you know, small apps that are ranking in between, and then find the best keywords for that to see if And also it affects on Google Play. You have these and Google sees that you are you’re using these keywords specifically, the chance
to showing you is like super high. I see. I like it. Okay. I’m going to move on to the next one. This is amazing. What are you constantly AB testing? A bunch of keywords? Yeah, the keywords also screenshots. It’s so important. For example, if someone is in United States, and but they originally I mean, he’s you know, from another country, he always usually sees like the English screenshots. But you can target like if
he’s in United States, but he sees screenshots in Arabic, you know, it feels like more home, and you know, it’s more effective. Yeah. >> So we were working on screenshots, short description, and all of them we tried different variations. And then one thing that was that we should run it for at least 7 days to test it if this is working and comparing the conversion rates. And yeah, and that’s you need to localize
it. I like it. Okay. Here. They just asked, “Did you localize the keywords, too?” Yeah. I like it. Okay. Next one. Oh, yeah, here we go. I will explain I will explain this. Okay, we can switch slide. Do you see the new slide, Fatima? So AB test on experiments. Yeah, exactly. This is the one I explained that you can use multiple variants like localize them for your
niche market. It depends on which users you are targeting. Yeah. If you can find them anywhere in the world. Hey Fatima, would did you get initial downloads for your app and you were able to AB test or were you running Were you able to How do you kick-start an app? Let’s say you have a Google Play app and you’re like, “Well, I would love to do experiments, Fatima, but I’m not getting any downloads.” You know, at the beginning, ASO is not working. You need to start with low-budget Google Ads, but you need to
work on ASO and combine both of them together. It This is the way that you can see the results of experiments and, you know, decisions. What’s a low budget? Like, is it just $10 a day? What are you doing? Yeah, and I’m going to talk about it in the next slide. >> Okay. Okay. All right. So, stay tuned. All right, guys. Stay tuned. All right. Love it. Anything else here that you want to recommend before I go to the next slide? No, I think I said all of it. >> Okay. All right. Yeah, and one more thing that
you can all you can use main store listing, the experiments, and now custom store listings, which you can target users by a country, search keywords, and you can also you show users different store listing if the user is coming from Google Ads or different URL, which this has been so, you know, famous in App Store, but in Google Play there it’s not been mentioned a lot. Yeah, we’ve seen great success with this, Fatima, when we’re targeting a
specific keyword. So, we’ll really narrow in on One of our best case studies One of our Okay, actually not best. Recent case studies has been just helping a client just really grow from like less than a thousand like a few hundred bucks to like five, six thousand dollars a month using custom store listings and targeting their main keyword with that custom store listing. Exactly. This is the The we saw a good potential and good results from that, especially the search keywords. Uh you
can target any keywords that for example, if users search for a keyword, you can show a specific store listing to that user that you are using that keyword in your screenshots, which lead leading that to a really high conversion rate. I like it. I like it. Yeah, and I think you can make like to 50 custom listings per app. And yeah, you can like uh specifically target users and uh on your purpose for your app. Yeah.
So, here it is. Search keywords, the most effective. I would definitely do it with the search keywords country and then specific campaigns. Are you using custom store listings in your Google Ads, too? Uh on Google Ads, we didn’t use uh we’re still testing, but mostly we used it on like uh the keywords. I see. I like it. Same. And that’s where we seen the best results, too. Okay. Exactly. You want me
to go to the next slide, Fatima? Yes, please. Okay. Just do that. Give me a signal. If you want to ask questions, you can start. All right. Google Ads strategy for low CPI. Wow, that’s amazing. Is this in the US or do you target specific countries? Uh it’s it’s uh it has like different, you know, for each app. We target different countries, but this one is for like Middle East.
Okay. And what made you start there? >> Yeah, we Yeah, as you can see like this is uh this is not the budget we started with, but it at the you know, resume it when you get uh revenue, you can add some budget to your Google Ads. And as you can see uh the cost per conversion rate is so low. Yeah. And many people think that they cannot get installs with these
numbers, but it is possible if you believe in that. And you know, I can’t say that it’s you have you can do it with very low, but there’s like one minimum you can find it. You when you run a campaign and like set a cost per install, you may think that after 2 days or 3 days, when it’s not starting, you think that it’s not working, maybe I should increase the cost per install. But for campaign for each campaign, we let it rest for about 7 to 10 days.
And then the campaign started working on that specific cost per install. Interesting. So, you you said to Google, "Hey, I want you to get a 3 cents or 3 pound looks like, but >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pence. You want 3 pence. I know, that’s tiny. You want 3 pence per install and Google finally got it got you to there after 7 days. Exactly. 7, sometimes 10 days. Wow. Just
let it go. What are you doing in the What are you doing in the 10 days, Fatima? I’d be freaking out. I’d be like, “No, this is not working.” I’m on other apps. Yeah, I try to focus on other apps. Okay. >> And working on ASO and experiments and anything else. You just need to be patient. There you go, Kancha. Kancha is a part of our team. He’s a Burma. There you go. Go go for it. All right, I love it. Are you giving me a signal, Fatima? Oh, no. You want to stay here. Yeah.
And about the, you know, the budget, you need to start it small, like a 35 pounds or like 50 dollars. Mhm. And then increase it step-by-step and not do not scale it over 50% at once. You just need to increase it step by steps. And one more thing that is really working for us is that for the optimization of your your um campaign, you should work like zero or one. If you are using uh images or
videos, full uh I mean, upload to the fullest. Make it a 100% strong campaign. I see. Or if you’re not uploading uh all of them, average is not enough. Do not upload anything. Go ahead only with text. Like only head headline and description. This will work better than the average because the Google will, you know, fill it for you. The AI will fill it for you. Interesting. So, you said, "Okay, either
go 100% with images and photos or just do text." That’s it. >> Exactly. And then with the image >> With the images, are you using any of the stock photos that Google the in the Google Ads that platform, they they give you some stock photos. Are you using any of those? Oh, I’m sorry. Which images? I didn’t understand. You know the stock images? So, Ashley Black, I’ve had her on the podcast as well and she talked about how you can even use the stock images. You know, on the Google Ads platform, you
can do a search and you can say like, I don’t know, baby photos and they give you stock images that you can use in your ads. Did you use those at all or did you use those at Exactly. But, they’re not So, usually they you get poor in, you know, poor performance from those. Anytime you see like a low performance, you need to change that image or text so that you get a, you know, best performance from any of your ad units or any of your uh parameters. I like it. Okay. Do you want me to go to the next slide?
Uh yes. Please. Ah, here we go. You got to take a screenshot. We just talked about it. Here, let me let me zoom in it for you guys. There you go. >> Yeah. One thing I forgot to say is that a goal for only one country per campaign. Do not mix them. Okay. Let it rest for 7-10 days. Go work on other things like Fatima said, don’t scale over 50% and that’s even true for like Facebook ads when we’re running
them. We try not to like on a daily basis we just try to go like 20% a little bit more. So Fatima, you started at 35 pounds a day and you let it run and said, “Hey, get me three pence per install and I’m just going to wait the 10 days.” Yeah, and the more installs you get, the lower the CPI will be. At the beginning we started with four four pounds or maybe five, but the more installs and the more conversion you get and the Google finds like what is your
product and who is your user so that the CPI will just decrease. I see. So talk to me about the initial campaign setup. 35 pounds daily budget? Yeah, okay. And then the CPI goal of five pence or three pence? What did you start off with that one? Uh I started with four pence. Four pence, okay. Interesting. Wow. Yeah, I’ve seen I’ve seen low as like 10 10 cents or 10 pence in for these like
different countries. We tried it in Brazil, I forgot, India definitely. You can get these like really low cost installs. And then I’m going to save the question I have for this in terms of revenues. Like you know, you’re able to get these low cost installs, but are they translating to revenues? But I’m going to continue on. Do you want me to go to the next slides, Fatima? Uh yeah, the next one is going to be like the include the conclusion of the ASO and Google Ads. Yeah, I love it. Right? And the revenue you asked, uh
this app monetization strategy was only AdMob. So we weren’t focusing on subscriptions. Mhm. And in that case, uh the more users we got, the more revenue and the ad, you know, impressions of ad was higher. So, it gave us more, you know, income and profit. And you may say that you may get low-quality users, but at the beginning, it’s important that you just get any user. Mhm. >> And you have some download credit, and
then at the beginning, ASO will bring the high-quality users for you. That’s the That’s the way to do it. And I’m thinking the wrong the same ways on the iOS side, but too. I was like, “Hey, I’m going to do it this way, and then I’m going to run ads to bring in users, too.” But I love this. The on your on Google Ads, how are you able to target keywords? Because from what I remember when we set up Google Ads for Android installs, it’s sort of like a black box, and
Google says, “I got it. Let me control everything.” How are you able to target those keywords on Google Ads? >> Uh you can you cannot target like specific keywords, but when you’re using it in a long-term long-tail keywords, or when you’re using it in your sentences, it gets, you know, famous. You know, users sees you with these keywords, and then searches for your app. Mhm. Okay. When you say repeat every month, 1 to 2 months, are you finding new niche
keywords, and you’re creating new custom store listings, and new experiments for the same app? Uh this is like the conclusion of the ASO. It was like find a niche keywords, apply them everywhere, your main store listing, experiments, custom listing, and developer rate. And run Google Ads targeting those keywords, and repeat it like find better keywords every like 1 or 2 months, or try different experiments. So, that you can, you know, there’s never a perfect store listing or
you know, >> you need to better. And the more you more keywords you index for, the better your app will be. I see. So, you’re like, “Hey, an example would be I have Let’s say I have a sleep sounds app and then I it’s sleep sounds, right? That’s the niche.” And then I go after white noise and then maybe brown noise. And so, you’re starting to repeat all this and create new custom store listings for all these other new keywords.
Is that a good analogy, Fatima? Okay. Thank you. All right. And then Joe, let me take this quick break. Joe’s like, “Hey Fatima, what what ad formula are you using with AdMob? Do you have a bidding or a waterfall strategy?” Uh what ad formats are you using with Uh by ad formats, uh we uh had the more income with our full-screen interstitial format. And you know, we are testing it. We We tried to implement it dynamically
from the panel. You know, sometimes we show it like in this stage we show full-screen, sometimes we show uh banners. And it depends uh when we get more income, we will change it. We will like enable or disable it. I recommended that you uh you uh you know, implement this dynamically. I like it. And we’re going to get into the AI tools, too. Preetam Preetam says, “Is it fine if I use ChatGPT for title description and other store listings?”
Well, I recommend you to look for ASO tools and look for keywords because Google is so sensitive. And if you use any like brand or copyright keywords, it will remove you instantly. So, you need to double-check everything yourself as well. What’s your favorite keyword tool for Google Play? Uh well, I tried different ones like MobileAction, App Tweak. And but you you
can find best keywords like analyzing your competitors. Especially those one who are small but ranking the most. Yeah, those are my favorite ones to look at, too. Okay, and then Joseph has a question. Hi all, would this mean you would need your app to have different languages within for them to use? Yeah, that’s a great point. So, if you’re localizing for these different languages, do you try to support those languages within the app as well? Uh well, yes, exactly. We have multi-language app.
Okay, yeah. And Joseph, you know, the Fatima says her thing, and she does support it, but what we’ve also seen is sometimes Fatima will do is we’ll test it. So, we might not support it in the app, but we’ll test it with the the screenshots, we’ll test it with the the title, the short description, and then once we start getting some downloads, we’ll then go ahead and start localizing the in-app content as well. Exactly. Okay, I like it. All right, let
me see. >> When you find actually when you find a niche target, when you for example, this country, these two or three countries are working for you, you don’t need to like scale to more. Sometimes you can get all the revenue you need from only one or two countries. I like it. Yeah, I like it. And then Joe has a great point. Can you use Can you have multiple sets of keywords that target a specific set of screenshots? And I think the way I would say this is
Yeah, go ahead. No, you you go ahead, please. >> No, you Hey, you’re the star, okay? You go ahead. Well, multiple sets of keywords, like yeah, in different in in Google Play you can test a lot of things. You have like custom store listing experiments, and even you can AB test it. So, yeah, you need to see which keyword is the most important for you. Sometimes you can get like 90% of your downloads from one keyword. So, you need to find that one.
Which is, you know, the users always search for it. The thing I was going to add to Fatima and Joe is that I would try to even in these custom store listings match the screenshots with that keyword set. And so, you know, what we’ve seen on iOS, and especially for a new app that we just released on iOS, Fatima, we tried the different campaigns to get it to number one for the target just like you said, right? We did some ASO research. We found some keywords that
not a lot of people were paying attention to, and I tried so hard to get it to number one, but it wasn’t It could be cause and effect, and I might be giving it too much cause and effect, but my team they changed the screenshots around, and the screenshots now have that main keyword that we were targeting in that first screenshot with a person in front, right? So, we’re using a photo versus the App Store screenshot, and I feel like because the conversion rate is now
improving, we’re able to now maintain that number one position for that keyword. And so, I felt like really screenshots are going to be super important these days moving forward. Especially with Apple saying that, I know we’re talking about Google, but Google’s been doing this for a long time where they say they’re reading the words on those screenshots and helping you. So, it’s not going to get you from like 100 to number 10 or number one for a particular keyword, but if you’re around the top five, it might get you to get to number one, and that’s what we’re our
app was doing. We’re fluctuating in the top 10, let’s say, but now we’re we’ve got a pretty good hold on the number one position for that keyword. Exactly. In Google Play, it’s so important thing that you use the keywords in everywhere. Many times. And even in the developer page cover image, you know, we even used to do those targeted keywords in developer developer page cover image. Yeah. So so important that you use them in your images. Developer cover image,
wow. Okay, I’ve never even heard that. I’m like, where does that even show? But I’m going to find it and I I’ll show you guys a visual of that. Let me look at >> Yeah, we use that keyword which was important for us in all languages in the developer page. Oh my gosh. Let me see Let me try to find one on Google that has a developer image already. That’s insane. That’s brilliant, Fatima. I don’t even I don’t even know where it would be. Where would it show up? That developer image. Is it on the
developer’s side of things? Yeah. No, no, I guess I think users can see it when they click on the, you know, developer page. It should be on Google Play. Okay. All right. Let me try to find a a visual for that. Yeah. >> Maybe it’s on the app. I’m only on the web and I don’t see it on the the website of things. Okay, I love that. All right, Fatima, I’m going to go back to your slides a bit. So, you talked about you want to get into the some of the AI tools that you’re using?
And like people love this one. I never worked on the developer page. Very informative. Love it. I found it. You can check it on the browser. When you see a an app and it’s showing like the developer name or the company. When you click on it, this is the developer page. And you can select which one of your every one. Which one did you use? All right, let me try to find one cuz I just looked at Calm and I didn’t see it in there. But >> I saw the one I used that one. Any app.
Okay, let me try to find that. Okay. All right, here. See, I’m I’m on here. Don’t see it here. But maybe Who do you want me to look for? Click on the app. Click for example on the Calm. Okay. And then you can click on calm.com Inc. Yep. Click on the company name. No, no. Uh Right here? Then you open the
product page. Yeah, open the app, please. Maybe they don’t have it. That’s that’s the only thing I can think of. At the top under the app name. No, no. Go on. I think I can’t tell you. Yeah, open the Calm app, please. >> Okay. Yeah, at the top above the reviews. Yeah, this green one. This one? >> You put on it. Yeah. Yeah, that’s what I did. Got me here.
Maybe it’s like on mobile because I’m seeing it in here. Yeah, I found one. Thumbs up. So, okay. He’s he found one. So, you guys can figure it out, but that’s that’s amazing. I love that tip. That’s important. Even keywords in here are important. Wow. And I’ve even seen like video sometimes impact it. So, if you have a video on your App Store page like that YouTube video, because it has to be YouTube video, make sure those keywords are in the title there, too. Exactly. Okay. I love it. Let’s go back to this amazing presentation all about AI tools. Okay.
Yeah. And the AI tools that are recently like the most trending ones that everybody is talking about has changed the game, you know? For me for example, I spent like weeks and dollars a lot just to implement an idea and test it out on the store. But with with tools like Cursor, which I’m using, you can like implement anything that is
meaningful to you and you can test your idea like in a in a gland. It’s so easy. Yeah. So, you’re using cursor to develop new apps? Yeah, exactly. I’m using cursor also the agent cloud force on it. It’s like you can make really high quality apps. It really changes the game. Is it Is it easy to prompt it? Like, “Hey, I want to make a photo room AI photo editor type of app.” Is it that
easy? Like, what what kind of prompting like Have you found different secrets in terms of like the right way to prompt? Uh you know, you just need to use the right agent. For example, Sonnet 4 is premium, but it’s really is useful. And you need to add some dots to that, you know, you need to teach the AI how to think. You can add the links of the latest iOS like design tips, guidelines, and the you know, WWDC, the latest iOS, you know, tips. And this
way you can teach the AI to make like Yeah, exactly, the right coding. Yeah. And then, thank you, Tamraz. You He found an app. So, this is the developer image that Fatima’s talking about right here. Make sure you have to get the keywords in here, too. Yeah, exactly. They are using keywords, I guess. Love it. Thank you. Got to love the audience, huh? Love these guys. Okay, thanks, guys. That’s why That’s why I’m in Lake Tahoe and
still doing this cuz I love doing this as well. Just like There was somebody else here. Okay, let’s get into the next one. Yeah, actual AI Yeah, something that I see Everybody thinks that AI is going to like replace everybody, but it’s just going to make everybody improve. Like, there were a lot of apps on the store, but now they are going to be really high quality apps there. And it’s especially for indie developers. Now, they do not need like a huge engineering team. They
can develop best apps easily. And for this process time that the reason I’m talking about AI tools is that we use AI tools to like bring a new app and test it. And if it has KPIs, we will ex- we will scale it. And then after scaling, you can exit like in the best amount you want. What What KPIs are you looking at? When
you say if it has good KPIs, what what are what are the numbers you’re looking for? Talk to me. Uh for it it depends. Like for our apps, uh conversion rate is so important for us. Like the you know, uh installs and um Are you talking about this conversion rate? Like right here, the store listing? Are you looking at like actual paid like install the trial and install the subscription? Well, I said it depends on the monetization. For the app that only
monetization strategy is AdMob, then only the conversion and you know, the lowest user lost parameter is important for us. Okay, got it. But if it’s a subscription app, then you’re going to look at, you know, install the trial, install the paid. Got it. Love it. >> That’s it. Love it. Love it. Love it. And then some of the things that I know we look for is on average, install the actual paying is roughly around 2 to 3%. Is it Is there a number that you kind of look for,
Fatima? If it converts at this much, then we’re going to invest more and try to scale it up. Uh well, yes. Uh at the beginning, it it’s like the lowest, but the more installs you get, you know, the this number gets higher. But uh you know, when um you just start making at least 30% profit from your app, then it I think it’s the time to scale it. Really? Even if you So, if I’m making
30% profit, does that mean that you’re like you spend a dollar, you make a dollar 30? Is that what you mean? Yeah. 30% like yeah. Or is it like you spend a dollar, you make 30 cents? That’s all I mean. Is it >> Yeah, you know, then you get like the point-to-point and after that you you’re making profit, you just start scaling it and then you find the flaws and you just improve them. There’s no like perfect You just need to go store
like learn how to optimize it and then go with that. >> What do you do with the apps that don’t meet those numbers? Do you just remove them? Like Do you just let them go? Like what do you do with those apps that like don’t meet those numbers? Uh I Yeah, we just leave them. Leave them in the app store? Leave them in the >> Yeah, you just sometimes need to leave something which is not working. But they’re still live and people can still download it, but you don’t remove them from the app stores, do you?
Uh if it it does it’s making like a profit, I will keep it just there. But if it’s not a profit and I’m making a loss, then I will remove it, unpublish it. Maybe the server cost or the other cost are higher than the profit and in that case I will not keep it. Love it. Okay, speaking of AI, you’ve got an AI app that you want to talk about as well called Bookland. Yeah, this is uh one of our latest iOS apps, Bookland, which is first built
using Curtsy AI. Wow. >> And thanks to my team for the designing. I love that. I love my incredible team. And uh this app is like um AI-powered book summary app, which uh actually curates top reads across uh categories like self-growth, business, happiness, or like trending like self-growth apps, and it delivers bite-sized
insights and inspirational quotes. And you can download it if you want, and your feedback, review Yes, leave a rating. All right. If you enjoyed it. Yes. >> Yeah, I get review or feedback how can we improve it. Yes, and I love it because hey, Fatima just gave you that developer image tip, and you guys all loved it. So, the least you can do is go download the app and leave a rating for Fatima as
well. So, Fatima, it’s sort of like Headway, right? But now instead of like Headway saying here are all the books available that we have for summary, you go do can we give you a book and then you’ll you’ll have that summary, or do you already have a bunch of books that you’ve summarized for us? Well, there are some summaries already in the app, and they are being added because this is new app, and there are not a lot of summaries available. But some things that I love about this idea is that books are not boring, you know, the
covers are live. And it can make give you the vibe of the book before starting reading it. I see. And this is what I’m talking about with the image, the photo. Like I I think every screenshot moving forward I’m giving it away, Fatima, but should have a photo of a person. It just works. It just works better. I see. I saw that there’s a psychology when you use a real person in your screenshots. One of them looking to the camera, and one of them like, you know,
from the side. It has, you know, a confident it gives user a confident and calm vibe to trust this app. Should we look Should we look to the side? Should we give our give it a favorite side? Yeah, like the the person like someone is using your app, and the other one is like looking at the camera confidently that this good app. I love it. I love it. Okay, and then the last one is if you want to connect with Fatima, here’s all her socials to
connect with her as well. Yeah, feel free to connect. Yeah, ask questions or just say hi. Just try not to sell me anything. Yes. All right. So, just scan that QR code right there if you want to connect with her anywhere else. You even put your Telegram, Fatima. That’s that’s bold, girl. Yeah, I’m open to meaningful conversations. Okay, I love it. All right, what is the AI in the app? It is there. So, I think he’s talking about Bookland.
Well, it is being OpenAI API is being used in the app. Also, it is made from AI. Also, it gives the AI you know assistant to users. I love it. Love it. But, if you want to Can I tell it what book I’m want to read and then you will give me that? Or you will summarize it? Yes, exactly.
It has like the AI page that you can find any book in the world that AI will summarize it for you. You can click on the name which can see the store page. Can I Can I show off the app, Fatima? Yeah, of course. Okay, great. Where is my There it is. So, I’ve got the app right here. I’m going through the onboarding. So, discover AI magic. Ways to build
confidence, sure. Let’s do that. is not they will like me. Confidence is I’ll I’ll fine if they don’t. Hey, that’s for sure. I like that. Confidence is not they will like me. Confidence is I’ll be fine if they don’t. I actually have a book Fatima like courage to be disliked. All right. I want to go through this. Next. Love these. Typical book. Ask anything get in 5 minutes, which I did say 5
minutes. That’s for rating. Perfect. Here too. Next. I start books but lose interest. forfeit it. Yeah, sometimes I do. Yes. There’s a psychological, you know, strategy that if you get user three yeses next to each other, the user is like going to like trust you more. Yeah. They can sell everything to that user. I love it. Yes, and absolutely great.
Somebody called it the yes ladder. Fatima, get them to say yes a bunch of times. Yeah, exactly. Love it. Right here. And then you got the Oh, you get the free trial. I love it. It’s just you give a discount. I love this. Have you seen any data on this yet? Just giving a discount without a free trial and giving a discount with and no discount with the free trial. Well, users usually try to they want to try the trial, but the most like
converting one are like in the gift tables. So, this is like psychological, but nobody gets without trial the cheaper one. It’s maybe like this is psychological psychological strategy. >> I’ve I’ve been wanting I’ve been wanting to try this for so long. I’ve been really wanting to try this. Okay, I’m going to talk to my team. I’ll talk to you. Love it. And so, surprise me or let’s say uh let them. You know that book by Mel
Robbins? Yeah, it is already. Oh, it’s already there. >> Yeah, there are two sections. One of them is AI like it gives shorter summaries. You can search for anything or in the other tab there are some already summaries in there. Summarize the Let Them Book by Mel Robbins.
Return. What I do? Oh, got it. It’s taking me back to the paywall. Love it. Oh, you don’t rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. That’s a good one.
Love this. You know what? It’s It’s also like really good if now having read Atomic Habits and I’m reading through summary, it’s also good just to be like, well, I don’t know if I want to reread it again, right? But I am happy to get a summary again just as a refresher as well.
Yeah, you can also check the explore tab and you can see that there are already some summaries that are already in the app. Oh, there it is. There’s the Let Them Theory. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. This is good. These are things I needed.
Let them go. I’ve had to let some friends go, Fatima. Friends, partners, colleagues, don’t chase them. Don’t beg. Just let them go. I love it. That’s my favorite as well. It’s as I’m now in my 40s, in mid-40s, I’m just like, yeah, sometimes you you have to learn to let people go, too. Exactly. All right. Great content. I got to learn about this. All right, Fatima, I got some questions and then we’ll get into some app audits and I know you prepared
plenty of dad jokes. So, we’re going to get to that as well. But, we’ve got a question. What about AI cost? Is it a lot if a user runs all these summarizations? Well, at the beginning, we are just trying to test it and after that we’re going to like add some limits daily or like for free trial. But, for now, it wasn’t like something big.
And then Concha asked, “How much time did you build Yeah, how much time did building this with AI take? Was it ready enough to build and deploy with any without any additional code?” Yeah, we didn’t use any additional code. It like took us about 3 weeks, I guess, 2 weeks, but it’s because I’m a bit perfectionist. So, I just wanted like to be better. But, it’s like perfect for testing your idea. It doesn’t need to be perfect or
having features. You can just test your ideas. And get going in market as soon as possible. Yeah, I love it. And be we the app that I’ve been talking about where we got to number one for the keyword, we just did that with AI. I told my developer, I was like, “Use AI. Here’s the keyword we found. Go build this app.” And it’s an easy app. And then, Fatima, what I’ve been telling people is like, "Look, if you can get downloads, you can fix everything else. But, if you don’t got downloads, then it’s a lot harder equation.
All right. >> Exactly. You need to go to the market and test your idea before trying to be like, you know, having a lot of features. Tamara says, “Very nice app. He likes Bookland. I just got the trial. Do you have a promo code?” All right. I will create one for you. Yeah. You got her info, so go go find her there. And then Chris says, “I don’t think you’re running meta ads, but are you running meta ads right now? Are you comfortable sharing? What is your possible result?” No, we just tried the Google Ads and
Apple Search Ads. That’s awesome. For the iOS apps. I love it. All right, Fatima. Well, if there’s nothing else, let’s get into some dad jokes, then. All right, Fatima. Do you Do you you have eight? Okay. I literally just found one before we went live. She’s like, “I’m a perfectionist. I have eight.” Okay, so if you want one of mine, I’ll give you one of my crappy ones. Okay, Fatima. Do you want to go
first or you want me to go first? No, you go first. I have eight, but I can’t remember any of them. I’m trying to remember. Okay. All right, Fatima. What’s the best way to watch professional fishing? What’s the best way to watch professional fishing? I don’t know. A live stream. Okay, that was like one more. All right, the What’s yours?
Uh I have one, actually. Uh Why did this startup fail? Why? Because they spent more on hoodies than on, like, hosting. Okay. I like it. All right, guys. So, all you got to do is put S for Steve, F for Fatima, and all you if you vote, we will put you into a drawing for a free India Santa promo. And thanks to our friends
from and you see their logos right below, Web2Wave. So, if you’re looking for a web-to-app funnel, and that’s what we’re trying to test, Fatima. We’re actually trying to test a an interesting hack, but Web2Wave helps you build web-to-app funnels so easily. Go check them out. It is the future, and I think a lot of people are going to be doing this in 2025 and 2026. Look at all these votes coming in. And then Arcads, if you’re looking for a way, speaking of AI, a way to really create AI-generated
avatars, videos, Arcads makes it super super easy. And some of our clients, we’ve seen really good results with AI-generated content, too. And Fatima, it’s like it’s really hard to see like who’s talking. Is it an AI person or a real person? And I’m going to run a test with people in a future video because for one of our clients, he’s like, “Hey Steve, go get me a real person. I want to see if the audience can see the difference.” Aw, it’s so good to see my team on here. Jade, good to see you, Jade. Okay. And you did vote for the right person.
Okay, good job, Jade. All right. All right, Fatima. I want to get into our app audits a little bit more, and we’re going to start off with Who’s the person’s name? Eric. Eric has the Fit Chap. So, let me pull up his app real quick for you. Yeah. And then I’ll love your advice on what his app needs help with. Let me see if I can Hold on 1 second. I’m going to make it full screen and then bring it up.
All right, Fatima. Anything on this screen that you want to highlight? Uh, no. No? Okay. Oh, shoot. Is everything there? Oh, shoot. Let me add it to the streak. Here we go. I mean, you do this. Is this better? Okay. Anything here that you’re seeing that you’re like, “Hey, it’s a workout app, lose weight, build muscle, pretty simple, achieve your goals.”
Well, I love it. It’s like a so good visual and it’s like I love the design and something that I would use in my screenshots is like make it more about user. You know, like uh it’s not just saying like our app has these features and like how to like uh lose weight like in this time or using so much more keywords in the screenshots. You know, in recently iOS
is using AI to analyze screenshots and if you’re using any important keywords in those, that would be more effective. Yeah, I like it, too. And then to talking about what we talked about earlier with using real people. Like that’s what I would try to do, too. And Eric, what I what I’m missing here is like one like talk about what people really want, right? And why they’re not getting that goal, right? So, really
think through, all right, I’m here, I want to get to my dream state and what’s preventing me from getting my to my dream state. So, screenshot one would be like, you know, here you’re here. Like Couch to 5K is a perfect example, right? Hey, I’m When you hear Couch to 5K, it’s great branding cuz you know exactly what the app is going to do. It’s going to help you get from get your butt up off the couch and run a 5K. And 5K is an achievable goal and to really think through like what’s stopping them from achieving this particular goal, too. And
I think I would try to add that to the screenshots along with adding some people with some muscles as well. Exactly. Before after use cases are so effective. Yeah, I like it. Okay, let’s get into the app itself as well. And help them out with this app. All right. Fit Champ. Boom.
Okay. Personal information. It’s too many questions on one screen. That’s my I mean, that’s what I feel like. Exactly. 45 I don’t know about kg. Uh uh All I know is a pound. Let me pull it up. All right. These days users are so lazy. They just they cannot like they don’t read a lot. 66 I don’t even know my height in centimeters. Okay.
7 in centimeters. Okay, good. People look again about 170. Continue. Oh my goodness. What is this? Quite a I don’t mind but you can look at Brooklyn. Right? You had an onboarding but it wasn’t It was one question at a time. And this feels like too much. So, okay. I want to I don’t know. I want to maintain. So, that’s usually what I see
too, Eric, is people do say maintain weight or lose weight. So, you don’t have that right now. Daily activity My activity is pretty high. One is sport activity. I don’t know what that really means. Okay. Yes. This was a good question. J Maxx app. J Maxx app. Yeah, I like that. Your nutrition goals. Okay, cool.
Yeah. Mm. Go ahead, Fatima. What do you think about this play wall? Well, I love the word free which is like the first catching. I saw the free trial, which was good. And uh I like that they’re explaining like the benefits in the way that you can see it all, and the prices are so obvious. Something that I see is working a lot that these days people are like showing prices in daily and uh weekly that it’s Yeah.
Yep. Yeah, I like that example, too. I think the other thing I would have to say is it’s you’re not you’re not showing off the benefits as much. Like the text is so small, and what on your screenshots, Eric, I see track your daily nutrition intake. And I don’t really see that here anymore. And so, I think I would really work on this onboarding. Right now, like if you don’t have downloads, like it’s not going to really matter if you have the
best onboarding in the world. But, I think you’re underselling yourself because I don’t there’s so much more benefits to this app other than the words here. And this text is so tiny. I know if you guys are watching this on screen, it looks even tinier, but it’s very, very tiny. Even when I’m looking at my phone right now. So, improve that a little bit, and then maybe even just have a couple of screenshots. Like I know Calley I does a really good job of like saying, "Hey, we’re going to help you with this, right? How are you tracking nutrition
right now? Oh, I’m not. Okay, great. Here’s how we’re going to help you with this." As you ask different questions, tell them how you’re going to help them along the way, as well. So, that’s what I would do. And then for me, the 7-day free trial is too high, and it’s not close to the call to action. And the call to action is the yearly, right? And you have 7-day free trial right here. So, you’re expecting me to remember. I’d rather you put it right down here, so that when I’m my eyes right here, ready to Whoops. Ready to see it. So, that’s what I would
do, too. Exactly. And the text like if if the shorter the better as I said users are lazy. They cannot read the text like you can write like meal tracker, fitness planner, or like personal trainer. That they those keywords are like so Yeah, that is it. Calorie AI calorie tracker, I mean you could start combining all of this into one. Love it. And I think with these fitness apps you can just do a hard paywall, too. So, I would just do a hard paywall
and just test it out that way. We’ve seen pretty good success with that. Okay. Great. Michael says, “Do you optimize for installs or free trials if if it’s an iOS app?” And then Michael, are you talking about with ads? So, So, let me know if that’s what you’re talking about, but for ads look if it’s meta, then you want to optimize ideally for free trials cuz that’s your business, but we’ve actually seen some clients optimize for installs and still
get pretty decent trials cost per trial, but what we try to do if you don’t have a Yeah, so he if you don’t have a big budget, what you want to do is use the installs to test the different creatives, and the ones with the lowest cost per install generally have a lowest cost per trial. So, what you want to do is test your creatives with the install campaign, then move them into a start trial campaign with the winning creatives, and they usually match up. If you have a bigger budget, then you
can just have start trial campaign for both your testing and your scaling as well. Fatima, you want to add anything else to that? Uh yes, for Apple search ads we were trying something that is really helpful. Uh we are using RevenueCat, you know, as the API, and when you are trying like Apple search ads campaign, and the users who turn like into trial or just they’re like extending, you can see which keyword exactly lead to trial.
So, you can keep all those keywords that are, you know, the all the users who want to purchase your apps search for, and you can find them. It is It is shown in your panel that this user has installed and paid, and it came through this keyword. Wow, that’s an amazing thing. Okay, that’s great. So, check out that Revenue Cat. Concha from our team, check that out, too. All right. H Let me Do I have some music for you? Okay. H is
Time to spin that wheel. All right, my friend. Okay, you go ahead. You control this. I’m not controlling this. This is your segment. Okay. So, first of all, let me give you the scores. Steve, you won the round, and it’s eight on three. So, you won the round. There you go, Fatima. Sorry, Fatima. What can I say? What can I say? I’m not so good maybe at telling jokes. In another language, if if it was in
Persian, maybe I won. I don’t know. In English, it’s maybe difficult. All right, H. Let’s pick a winner for our India App Santa promo. Sure. Let me spin the wheel, and here you go. A new winner. Oh, Brenvil. Brenvil. Cool. Awesome. I’ve been talking to him on Instagram, so I’m glad
he won. All right. Okay. Brenvil, just email me. Uh yeah, email me. Do not DM me. Email me, and then we will set you up with a free India App Santa promo, and we’ve seen some really good results. We have a case study that H prepared, too, and we’re going to create that video of someone seeing really good results. And we have some new plans on India App Santa that if If need some help with ASO, you can get If you don’t want to sign up for AppMasters, you can try an Indie App Santa ASO package as well. So, there it is. Jamie says,
“H, I never win at the spin the wheel thing.” How dare you? Better luck next time. Yeah. Just put Santi at appmasters.co and then he’ll try to rig it for you. Love it. All right. Yeah, our our our people are in India, they’re in the Philippines, so they’re they’re everywhere. So, we got people all over the world. Hey, if you’re in a Spanish-speaking country and you want to try to work for us, email me. Um I want a a global team. That’s how I see it, Fatima. Like the world is flat, right? Like not really,
but I’m being like we’re we should all be connected and so for my team, I want a diverse team so that we can help our clients and we have different perspectives in life, too. >> Exactly. That would be a lot of points of views from different countries, different cultures. >> Exactly. Exactly. All right, Fatima. Let’s get into the next app. Oh, man, we’re way over time. How are you on time? Can we go a little bit over? Uh from my point, yeah, we can. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay, let’s end on Let’s on with this one. This is
Daniel’s Daniel’s app and I want to pull it up real quick. So, he’s got PeeWee Music. We’ll go through the ASO real quick, too. Uh let me add it onto the screen. All right, Fatima. New way of streaming music. It’s beautiful screenshots. Yeah, I mean, he’s got 1,000 ratings, so this is pretty awesome, too. Wants help with the need help on the app has about 12 to
15,000 dollars per month. Congratulations. However, the revenue varies from 5 to 800 dollars per month. All right. So, we’ll spend some time on the screenshots, but anything you want to say? Here? No, I like it. Okay. Awesome. Yeah, I like it, too. I I I’m not You asked for the revenue stuff. So, let’s get into the revenue stuff here. Uh We’ll get bring that up. All right. Pewee music, it’s an interesting name.
150 million songs. So, Daniel, I don’t know if this is true, but like think about the login sign up. I’m sure you want it, but maybe allow me to select artists, too, before I always want data, Fatima, before I lose our user, right? So, I feel like we’re probably going to lose our user here. But So, I’m going to try to get some data
from them as well. All right. Exactly. I always give my Yahoo email address. That’s my dummy one. Oh my goodness. I have to do everything. You guys don’t see this, right? Yep. I have to make sure you guys don’t see my password. Password 1 2 3, okay? Password 1 2 3. So strong.
Uh It’s already registered. That’s not true. Okay. So, I’ve got the paywall now, too. So, free trial. Anything on this paywall, Fatima, you want to talk about? Uh well, I like that their uh button is like big there, and the user can access that when scrolling in any place. And 3 days for free, and the price is so obvious.
Yeah. You know, it’s just something that I would like to add. It’s like it’s important that you uh think about the user’s feeling. You know, you need to like make the user excited showing images like or artists, as you said. You need to make some moment in here to make the user buy. Yeah, I agree. And I think what I’m missing from this, Daniel, is like who are the artists? I mean, he does such a great job from the screenshots of having
Olivia Rodrigo, Taylor Swift, like a lot of the popular artists. But right now, like are you Do you have just as much of a catalog as Spotify or Apple Music or even, you know, Amazon Music? So, you’re going up against some really big giants, and I’m not familiar with all the the people that you have. So, I’m not sure what type of music that you have. So, that’s why I’m like, show me. Like, you didn’t win me over from the onboarding. You just said, “Hey, here’s a” I forget
what the first couple of pages showed in that onboarding. And then you’re like, “Sign up.” But in the sign-up process, like you could be like, “Which artists are you interested in?” Perfect. What cat you know, what what type of music do you like to listen to? We have these particular popular artists. And so, I’m missing that from this screen from this paywall and onboarding. I think that’s If you just focus on that, I think that’s what’s going to really help you out the most. Now, he has a discount.
Like, people are used to paying like I don’t even know what Spotify is, but I you know, they’re paying like eight $10 a month, right? Like, 12 to $13 a year. I’m like, “Are you even a good app?” That’s my opinion. Like, do you even have music here? I’m going to leave you a review. You know, there’s a feature recently that if you want like to sell it like not too expensive, you can leave the user to Stripe. Now, these days Apple let you not pay the percentage, and in Superwall we are using, you can leave
the user to the more cheap price, but you’re not going to pay the Apple the percentage tax. Yeah. >> sell it on your website. Okay. I don’t know if he has any latest songs, but he seemed like But I I I’ve been debating, too, Fatima, is like removing the trial. And then what I would do if I was him is just like lock up more content. Lock up more content and maybe even remove the trial. And just test it that. And we’ve seen
we just tested this with one of our apps in the AI space, and we’re seeing similar numbers, actually. We removed the 3-day trial from the weekly, and we’re like, “No trial.” And we’re just seeing what happens, and the revenue hasn’t dipped. The revenue’s still steady. So, I’m like, “Good. Now we don’t have to wait.” Right? I’m like, “I don’t have to wait the 3 days. If the revenue’s same, great. More money up front.” So, more signals. And then to I think it was Michael’s question, like this is even better now, right? Like, without the free trials, I can just optimize for the purchase. So, for a
subscription versus a a trial, where a trial doesn’t necessarily mean that people are going to actually pay me, right? So, I think that’s where the the trend is, in my opinion, headed towards. And so, I’m going to be doing a lot of tests for that. Exactly. All right. Fatima, what a great livestream. Thank you so much for sharing all your great knowledge here. The thing that I want to say is and I’ll let you kind of say anything else. Go check out her new app. It is
called Bookland. It is in It’s on Google Play, cuz I definitely got it on iOS. Is it on Google Play as well? No, it’s published only on App Store. Okay. Okay, check it out on the App Store if you have the App Store. And then if you want to connect with Fatima, there’s all the info there as well. So, Fatima, that was amazing. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your knowledge. If you If the audience wants to connect with you in any other way, do you want to send them anywhere else besides all these beautiful QR codes? Actually, I’ll point this way.
No, that’s good. The only thing Amazing. Well, next week guys, I will be back home, so we have this, but this is one of the highest live stream ones that we’ve seen recently, Fatima, so thank you to you in sharing this great knowledge. But next week we’re going to talk to Evelyn, another female founder, and she’s going to help, especially those indies. She loves We love our indies. She’s going to help you exit your app as well, and how do you prepare for it, what kind of apps are exiting, what kind of apps should you build, when
you should exit, all that stuff. So join us every Friday, 9:00 a.m. Pacific. Fatima, thank you once again for coming on. Thanks for inviting me. All right, guys, and I’ll see