Mastering Holistic App Marketing: User Acquisition, ASO, Monetization, and the Impact of ATT

foreign ation it is Steve p young founder of app Masters .com the place you go every Friday tuning in to learn about what works in the app marketing space and today we’ve got a phenomenal guess we’ve done a couple of workshops together and been a really great partner of vars if you’re looking for a mobile attribution platform go check out airbridge.io but today we’re going to talk a lot about CPP holistic app marketing and why a blended at marketing approach is the right way to go so without further Ado let me introduce the guest his name is Roy Nam he is the founder and CEO of airbridge airbridge dot IO let’s bring him in brother what’s up Roy welcome to the show hi Steve all right Roy well let’s kick it off I mean I know with do you want to start with like maybe just the impact of Apple’s ATT you know app tracking transparency I’m trying to remember all these acronyms but you want to talk about the impact and then how maybe leveraging Apple’s you know cpps can help you with that as well yeah absolutely uh so maybe I’m gonna bring up some sites you want me to throw them up tell me when you’re up okay here you go great yeah so as you mentioned there are so many things that are happening in a mobile space now um so by the way I’m Roy I’m from airbridge so uh definitely a lot of these new changes uh not only is this including ATT but also there’s a lot of these regulations like gdpr CCPA and Copa uh coming up to the market and also at the same time we’re seeing a lot of these you know web browser cookies or getting deprecated and uh amongst all of these changes as you mentioned Apple’s app you know ADT was kind of like um really enforces the apps to get the user’s consent on tracking their advertising IDs is actually impacting the entire mobile ecosystem and what we can actually learn from all these changes is that you know granular measurement is being phased out so we used to be uh using a lot of the granular user identifiers like adids cookies and all these uh maybe hashed emails and more but without you know all these like granular user level identifiers definitely it’s impacting the entire mobile ecosystem and how we measure and optimize things so let me just like deep dive into what’s happening here so normally uh you know iOS 14.5 and ATT especially this uh new type of change post two types of challenges one is visibility loss and second one is the signal loss sometimes we confuse these two but when we really go in into you know deep deep dive into each one of these actually they’re so much different so visibility loss what is that basically it refers to the difficulties that marketers may have in measuring the effectiveness of advertising channels campaigns or creatives so what it means is we used to know which channel was creative which campaign is most effective in terms of Roi and it’s getting more and more difficult to find out you know effectiveness of each Channel campaign and creative so that’s the visibility loss and there’s another type of loss that we’re facing which is signal loss so signal loss refers to the decreased Integrity of user Behavior data being sent to advertising channels which could reduce the accuracy about targeting a little bit difficult but I’m going to actually explain to you in the later slide so let me just briefly talk about the visibility loss once again so what happens uh when we actually you know when the mmps like airbridge show the data to you what happens behind the scene is actually there are two types of entities right here one is that platforms uh ad platforms as you can see like it can be all of all of them that you actually run campaigns on and on the other hand you have mobile apps and normally what happens is inside these mobile apps you would have installed the MMP SDK and MP SDK collects data from mobile app and eventually changes data with these ad platforms and do the calculation to the attribution so why does ATT matter uh in this in this diagram so basically you know there’s like the ATT opt-in rate and the industry is actually around like 25 to 40 percent so sometimes it’s like even like 15 sometimes it’s go as lower as like 12 10 so you can see it’s pretty low but what happens is when we want to exchange the data with these ad platforms through MMP we use the advertising ID as a matching key which means uh in order for you to really get the touch Point data click and view data from these ad platforms not only you have to get the content on your own mobile app and get the ad ID use them as a matching key but also at the same time on the other hand these ad platforms should have their own advertising IDs in place that they can use to match it back to their own users so mobile apps having to have the aid ID ad platforms having to have the Ada D and they should be matched together so that exchange can happen and then the MMP can use that data for analysis but because it’s like 25 here 25 here and the matching rate decreases so that leads to the visibility loss that we are facing currently so that’s about the visibility loss so a simpler picture could be you know up in rate 20 to 40 percent often right here 24 percent actual matching rate can be my store so like signal loss kind of the same but you know when we think of the signal loss is basically the same function but a little bit going further down into how all these advertising platforms are delivering ads to the right people so essentially all of these optimization algorithms or based machine learning and Ai and what are all of these like machine learning and I do essentially is really finding the users who are most likely to purchase or most likely to insult or maybe most likely to conduct certain action a and then how do they know that these people are likely to conduct this certain action a it’s based on the historical data that they get from these advertising app applications you know advertisers so because they know who already installed the app because they know who already made the purchases they actually can calculate based on you know these past behaviors and find out those who are most look-alike those who are most similar to these users uh that we already know that they that have conducted conducted these actions so because you know there’s a decreased matching rate once again uh it’s really hard to find these similar users which means it’s really harder to find those people who are likely to purchase something or install something but because of that it really impacts uh some of the efficiencies that we’ve been experiencing in the past so this I would say it’s kind of the sum something up of what’s happening to the scene right now and the impact of the loss of the uh Ed IDs I think this is an important side Roy I know a lot of people are facing this you know one of my clients in the fitness space he was targeting within meta people who are likely to activate a trial and since this tracking becomes so hard now we’re not able to get the low cost per installs the low CAC the cost per customer anymore and then with Google we experience this and I’m is like a light bulb goes off right and that’s why I love doing these things because we were like all right let’s look for people who are likely to start a trial through Firebase but then now it’s becoming harder again because we were using Google as to drive iOS installs and when we change the setting to just be like let’s just focus on installs it started spending yeah yeah so definitely there are a lot of ways to cope with these issues uh one of the most you know best tips that I can always like give up to the to the advertisers is really to adopt the conversion API so conversion API AKA Cappy so many of these advertising platforms are having their own Cappy interface and then what it is essentially do is it allows advertisers to send the data with additional identifiers cached emails uh for many quick IDs so leveraging all these additional identifiers you may may can actually recover some part of the matching rate so Cappy is definitely one very effective measure that I always recommend and another that you can easily take is really thinking about you know other types of channels maybe in 10 phase channels uh like searches or context space channels like native s or beam creative centered so definitely uh so you know loss of the at loss of the adids does not mean also the behavior targeting itself definitely Behavior targeting is ever advancing when your AI and machine learning Technologies so definitely we should have some confidence and keep connecting what we’ve been doing but at the same time we can think of other media types like contact based denton-based or maybe become creative Centric so you call up it all out of these creatives and test them out and just find those who are having the best responsiveness uh and maybe you double down on these creatives to maximize the ROI so these are the generic advices that I can give out to the advertisers in this case yeah hey Roy how do we is it is Cappy or the conversion API is that part of Meadow or is that like something that if we work with air Bridge you guys handle like how does that work yeah so Cappy is normally supported by most of the primary advertising platforms obviously when you type in just copy you’ll you’re gonna find uh many and many of these official documentations on place so it’s a server site API uh and you can always look into these documentations and maybe you know find your own API key inside your developer portal and use it got it okay so you got to go through if you’re going to run meta ads you got to go through the meta copy and that’s k-a-p-i right like conversion API just to reiterate yes yes all right uh it depends on each platform and I would say most of these you know advertising platforms um that are Mo they’re having like display ads videos and use like Behavior targeting mechanisms uh they would certainly have Cappy but the smaller uh ad networks and smaller media platforms might not have Cappy so I would say Cappy is kind of more leaning towards a bigger advertising platforms nowadays yeah got it love it okay let’s see is there anything else on the ATT side that you wanted to cover on your slides okay no I want to say yeah people too Mary’s here good to see you Mary got to meet her George from London good to see you Adrian you missed it good to see you back and Josh is here as well Luke it is just you in the Stream and then zoom in is here too she’s staying up late for us as well Roy is staying up like in South Korea and he’s staying up here do this with us so a lot of great content and good afternoon Kevin all right Roy we want to talk a little bit about cpps and how you can leverage it for maximum growth maybe use it for attribution you know we’ll talk about it so I’ll let you kind of decide where you want to head with that so let me know when you want me to bring it up yeah I I’m I’m good with CPP I’m good with any topic yeah because I’m ready yeah all right yeah bring it up right here and Jacob can this stream be uploaded later Jacob it’s gonna Live on YouTube forever bro come home all right here we go awesome yeah so thanks Steve for you know bringing up another slides it’s about CPP uh so I mean it’s not a coincidence that stays topic is mastering holistic and marketing and I believe that CPP is actually a very very good example um you know itself is a good bridge between you know organic marketing that we call as ASO and also at the same time it kind of like has is One lag on you know the mobile marketing the pain marketing as well so CPP is kind of in the middle it’s kind of a good Bridge uh that kind of connects the paid advertising and the ASL so I can definitely dive into CPP for the next uh maybe four to five minutes with these slides uh so yeah let’s dive in um myself it’s a little bit of myself uh skip that so let’s understand more about custom product pages um so when we think about ASO uh definitely there’s so many ways to categorize ASO into different parts but if I really simplify that I would say there are two types of optimizations that you can do one is keyword optimization AKA KW and creative optimization Co and um you know keyword optimization if I just briefly uh explain it’s all about finding keywords that are most relevant to your application uh doing some keyword research between competitor analysis finding those keywords that are pretty effective for your organic driving your organic traffic and using these keywords Insider title subtitle keyword list or description to really provide more traffic with these or you know with these keywords so that’s like keyword optimization and another like bigger part that I want to mention today is creative optimization and according to feature um actually in 2023 the biggest ASO wins will come from creative optimization why stop so creative optimization is all about you know just keep testing and really optimizing app icons you know screenshots preview videos and all of these creative assets that you can find on the App Store and Play Store so normally what you can do about it is you would you can run you know all kinds of product a b testing there’s there’s some like native functions inside these app stores or Play Store that you can use or some solutions like replica that you can use to really test out you know the product pages but it actually takes a lot of time because for example like Apple’s product page you will come up with the three base you will have to wait uh until you get the responses back the feedback loop is pretty I would say takes about three three weeks at least so in order for you to do the rapid test and also in order for you to drive you know better I would say CTR and CPR one thing that we want to talk about today is really leveraging content product pages so what is custom product page uh it’s really an easy concept it’s a product page always there’s a default product page so whenever you go into the App Store type in you know just go into the that application is product page there’s a default product page which is always there but Apple allows you to create up to 35 more different custom product pages and you can actually experiment with these custom product pages make like 35 different other versions of your product page and use them for your paid marketing and use them for your uh maybe tracking links so in this case it’s the same app called mountain climber it’s an official example provided by Apple so maybe some people are using this app for you know Backcountry Trails maybe some people are using this app for rock climbing maybe some people are using this for bike trails so what you would do is you will you will create you know each one of these uh different product pages use them respectively uh for each one of these purposes and why you do it is to enhance user experience with custom tailored product pages and the simple logic behind is everyone lost personalization everyone would love to be tailored um for that reason and users it’s the same so consistency from start to finish in UA experience definitely increasing content relevancy to user and some highlighting product features that are most relevant to each user cohort uh you’ll be able to increase the click-through rate tap the rate increase the conversion rate which in turn leads to decrease up to CPI increase of the row as so we always recommend you taking full advantage of cpps to get the most out of your marketing budget sure so like one thing I know with meta ads you can use custom product pages now and we’ve we’ve definitely used that for some of our clients and we’re seeing really good results with just saying like hey don’t do this and then the CPP has that same so we’re using different messaging for different campaigns but I don’t think we can use it on any other AD platform yet unless I’m taken like it’s bullying meta that has that capability and obviously Apple search ads well as you mentioned Steve yeah you’re right so it really depends on each platform’s policy and their you know their I would say um capabilities that they provide to the users so normally uh mobile dsps they actually when when the redirection happens they rely upon uh mmp’s tracking links so in that case if the tracking link can support the CPP of course the mobile dsps can support that accordingly but some of the Sans uh you mentioned messages now but some of these Sands uh will not actually allow MMP to at the track and Link which kind of handles the redirection you know instead of them so they would actually do the redirection themselves in that case uh the official support for CPP should be there in order for advertisers to use the CPP for the marketing purposes yeah I like it okay let’s get into the next part of the presentation yeah so we talked a lot about the concept itself so now we are going to you know talk about the real life examples so we we believe that there are like three key variations of utilizing cpps one is by audience second is by season promotion and third is by you know thinking about competition and really how to stand out from competition so three of these use cases examples of CPP so first case um comes from a travel industry Expedia we all know Expedia so default case so definitely they’re like three two cpps we we brought to you uh all of the data that we’re using uh today is from mobile action the ASO and a search.com solution so definitely they represent uh the use case pretty well so by default they talk about space flights car packages things to do cruises all of them but for those who are you know searching you know hotel reservations Hotel near me hotel price here they actually highlight the picture of the hotel which kind of like appeals to that type of user Persona that type of User Group uh in a more relevant Manner and also core rental you can see there’s a car on the screenshot so those two are you know searching for Enterprise Car Hire current they’re going to see this image instead of this image so this is one example a very good great example that’s segmenting the users by the use case another interesting example that I you know uh found is from ubereats also from mobile action so by default I I think this is Chinese food um and those who are you know searching for grocery you have ads you have you know you have buckets and that’s yeah something like that and here for the fast food McDonald’s chipotle you you have the burger here the screenshot it’s a very simple variations but pretty effective to those who are entering the product page because this is the first screenshot that they’re gonna see when they enter the App Store hey right I’m gonna interrupt here too if you can go back real quick you can see I know you guys can’t see oh actually just keep it on the fast foods if you don’t mind so yeah the fast food stuff I want to highlight too look the first three screenshots show so Roy’s obviously just showing the first one it’s but if you look at the background you see KFC in the background for fast food so you need the free grocery in the background for that too so the first three are the most critical and what I always say with this and kind of right pointed this out the beginning was have some social proof like that first screen should always talk to what that main benefit is and clearly what they’re all doing it and then the second and third try to have incorporate some social proof in that we seemed really good success with that okay I’ll let you jump on to the next one yeah I totally agree with you Steve I mean three first screenshots or the most important one uh most important assets and definitely I think it’s a great advice so yeah just more examples to come uh seasonal promotions car Snacks by default it’s just e-cards gift cards easy but Mother’s Day they come up with this you know mother State tailored custom product page graduation so many people graduated you know pretty recently so they actually use this custom product page to tailor these uh you know people who are graduating and interestingly you can see there’s a gift card right here so they’re not only just like telling you that you can you know send the congratulations cards but at the same time send them the gift cards together with them so I think this is one of the great examples of how to use Uh custom product pages based on seasonality you can think of Valentine’s Day Christmas Easter’s New Year anything that comes all the way and um uh as as a as a custom product page use case and maybe the last one maybe this has been resonated in a few gross communities I’ve seen yeah and seen in the past because it’s a little bit witty uh how they make all these Rhymes so Oprah browser by default they kind of stress out their VPN capabilities but uh when certain people when when certain keywords arise like you know Firefox uh they actually have this very little bit provocative a little bit witty uh part of the fox uh screenshot and they kind of do the same thing to Microsoft Edge um just like get The Cutting Edge instead so I think uh so this this example I brought to you because it it’s really easy to understand but at the same time I want to stress out the importance of you know really telling the different stations of your own product against your competitors so uh we I intentionally like hit some of the size you know in the back um however when you actually do that please make sure to really State uh your differentiation compared to the competitors that you’re actually comparing right now so that the users can understand hey Roy I’m going to interrupt this one too so I really love this this is my favorite by far because where we have seen custom product pages now I’ll speak openly about custom product pages I wouldn’t go all in I’d take it one step at a time you know know we try to go all in don’t bury yourself I know a lot of developers I talk to tend to be like Steve I’m going to create 500 you know like 35 custom product pages because that’s like don’t do that start with two or three or maybe one or two and then get going because when we went crazy we didn’t always see an improvement in click-through rates and conversion rates now that’s my experience everybody has their own but what I do feel like with this this example with the competition we do know that competitor keywords do convert well so that’s why I love this we with one of our clients we’re actually seeing lower cost per installs now this is just we don’t know what the CAC is but we’re seeing lower cost per installs going after our competitors terms versus like browser you know like this example if we went after browser it might be a five six dollar cost per install but it went after Firefox we’re actually seeing maybe a two to three dollar cost per install and also using words that the audience is searching for does increase conversion so this is why I love this example too obviously people are searching for Firefox and so they say fire the fox people are searching for Microsoft Edge or Edge itself so get The Cutting Edge instead and then the Chrome example for Opera is hey ditch the basic browser and so the I love Chrome by the way but like that’s the advantage of doing it like having the keywords highlighted in your first screenshots do does impact the downloads too so that’s my take yeah I just totally agree with you Steve sometimes that people when they first listen about you know custom product pages they try to just like do all at once yeah but as you mentioned sometimes like badly made or badly created custom product pages actually can’t even decrease cctr and CVR so maybe just like experimenting with one or two and really if you believe that this is working you can expect all it all the time so definitely I it’s a valuable device yeah all right yeah so the rest of the slides you know how to incorporate cpps into your workflow uh because you have to use it um so basically uh we believe that there are like two main use cases first of all you can use that with the Apple searches so Apple search has allowed you to um really map these custom product pages to each one of the you know keyword groups and uh that can definitely reflect the intent of these keywords uh really well and that’s maybe the most commonly uh seen or observed use cases and success cases of CPP but at the same time I want to mention that some of these mobile dsps some of the ad networks or some of the places that you can put the tracking link into uh you can still use the CPP and uh you know just the reason why you can do this is because normally like mmps like airbrush we allow you to put in the CPP link when you create the tracking link as a destination we allow you to do the same for custom store listings as well and because it’s wrapped into the tracking link eventually you can use for you know any kind of like places maybe influencer as maybe dsps or anywhere you can put the tracking links you can also use the CPP so Apple searches and um and the uh you know the tracking link and anywhere you embed the tracking link are the main two use cases of CPP and I want to mention like just the last thing is definitely cpp’s performance can be measured uh so although if if you’re doing the holdout experience best because you can definitely get the most accurate incremental effect of the CPP but if not you can just like run this CPP everywhere and then just observe the CTR and CPR rate of each CPP plus maybe if that’s the combination you know the CPP plus keyword group or cpv plus creative or CPP plus like certain Channel you can you know do the breakdown and see if the CPP is working well with with all these combinations and definitely mmps uh can help you understand the performance up to cpps so yeah mobile action uh thanks to them uh because like definitely a mobile action provides all kinds of CPP intelligence uh Solutions so I definitely have uh found many of the examples that I presented today using mobile action yeah so that’s the end of the site I love it once again it is airbridge.io if you guys want to check it out and they do have a white paper the future of marketing mixed modeling there that I want you guys to check out as well but Roy I wanna there’s a question that Hussein has hopefully still there he’s from LinkedIn sir how to increase download on Android application some applications not rank for PDF example for example he has probably a PDF reader app so what do you think well Steve it’s a little bit of broad question so definitely this is what I get every day right yeah because like course like if we really just like you know think about the Ohio you know Burpee of your question two things you can do one paid advertising second you know unpaid was this mostly ASO and SEO so I would suggest maybe do the basics uh of course uh definitely thinking about ASO doing the keyword optimization creative optimization and really uh you know be confident about your app itself and the product page itself if you’re really confident with that and if you believe that keywords uh that you’re getting and then the traffic that is coming from all these organic heroes are increasing uh upward Trend then I think you’re good with the ASO and the you know uh the paid advertising part is really it’s pretty broad as well see you wanna see you want to kick in and then yeah sure yeah uh let’s go to my side so look who’s saying who’s who or Usman look PDF reader I put it in there now I was doing a live stream or something with like I forget who but exactly they were talking about like PDF reader was one of the more popular searches and I was shocked because I thought it was all branded right so you’re competing with Dobies you’re competing with all these big guys in there I agree with what Roy if I had to work on a new client if they have paid marketing it’s way easier to do ASO than if you have no paid marketing if you have no paid marketing what you got to do is really focus in and this is what I shared in our San Francisco Workshop is really focusing on the niche keywords or what I like to call the dirt right because everybody’s going after PDF reader but you got to look into the dirt and so what is the dirt I use app follow when I’m doing keyword research here so I’m going to do the dirt and what I highlighted was all you need is a keyword that’s around 30 search score so whether it’s edit PDF text or PDF filler PDF scanner those are more interesting of a keyword than going after a PDF or even PDF maker right those are more interesting to me because everybody’s going after a PDF reader like everybody in your if you have no paid marketing you’re just not going to compete with them so that’s how you do it obviously set it up but I think UA is important like I said I rather work with a client that has a UA model because then ASO becomes easier but if you don’t then you’re going to really have to do a lot of keyword research and find the right ones it’s hard it’s not dead it’s hard Mary we just helped she’s number one for remember names now so go check it out maybe I’ll just like add one more thing to that Steve uh so I definitely agree with Steve uh you know like those like having the keyword like with like you know High popularities you can’t really just penetrate into these spaces so definitely finding these Niche keywords it’s a good thing and maybe combining them with apple searches and even CPP could be even better because for example like PDF reader you can have all kinds of functions like you have a signature feature sometimes people want to edit the PDF sometimes they want to convert to PDF to PNG or any type of other you know image formats so really not only just finding keyword but also at the same time understand the user instant behind that and translating all of these are into into CPP and the group of keywords that you bid on Apple search as could can be effective yeah and right that’s a great point because look we search for PDF editor and you can see the rankings start to change a little bit and also like what I found is the more Niche you can get with the keyword or the lower in the dirt that you can get the higher the conversion rates so the intent is higher down here right than up here like and I always use meditation as a example it’s like okay I don’t know what kind of meditation you want but I do know if you want deep breathing or Pace breathing and if I give you that as a as a tool you’re more highlight you’re highly likely to convert versus anything else so like JPEG to PDF right dock scan so those are better keys or photo PDF mm-hmm I do agree Steve yeah I like it well George has a question says Roy Steve okay thank you what kind of conversion rate is common for Korea I translate my app in Korean I have more traffic but only five percent conversion rate that’s pay store listing to install yeah so it it really depends on each category and then it really depends on where you’re talking about the organic conversion rate or are you talking about you know you send it to pay traffic to the Play Store and and the conversion rate so conversion rate can differ in many circumstances um so I cannot really just pick one reason but so see do you have any idea on this yeah I was going to pull up I was trying to pull up his app sorry George I forgot what it’s called I’m trying to look it up right now let me find it Crafters I forgot what it’s called George so I was trying to pull it up on George can you put it in the comments what the app is called and then I’ll try to pull it up I know it’s a 3D I just forgot what the keyword was it’s AR ruler AR ruler George oh yeah yeah Crafters interesting interesting in the comments or it’s measure AR yeah okay measure tools AR yeah I we met George right I definitely do uh believe that if yeah it’s interesting to see how you really spotted that certain level of traffic is coming from the Korean market eventually localized um the language to support student customers um yeah pull it up in Korean well you’re making me do so much work bro maybe I’ll take out it’s uh I think it’s KO KR or something like that let me find out yourself so is it still in English George like it’s is this it it’s still in English yeah yeah it looks like it’s still in English that might be the reason why have you localized the App Store title and sub title short description all that stuff because I don’t see it in there okay oh okay I I think it’s actually uh I just you know I just like read um this in Korean uh I really want to share the screen uh but I I’m the only one who’s seeing there right now so Steve if you can’t just type in yeah I I’m not I’m not allowed to share but I actually sent to you in a private message so okay so actually uh the translation is poorly done uh to be frank with you so I I think religious literally machine translated it and some of these sensors might really just read awkward and uh I think the Korean end users uh if you actually come up with the better quality localization I think definitely it’s going to be better because like uh and also at the same time I think the biggest issue is the title itself um so the title itself is a little bit awkward if I read in Korean so maybe it’s about the title so the title and the description and discuss us entirely as well so I think if you can make some improvements in terms of all these uh you know all these uh descriptions that are written in Korean language I think is is certainly gonna help you increase the CTR CPR all right Roy is Roy’s offering the services I’m just kidding don’t bother Roy for Korean translation I love it all right the so let’s get into my favorite segment and when I see your question Romaine we’re going to cover it right after my favorite part of the stream let’s tell some dad jokes all right you want to play for dinner I may be coming out to Korea but we’ll play we’ll play for dinner how about that or drinks whatever that’s great okay all right let’s just come yeah do you want to go first or do you want me to go first I think you know you’re better than me so you go first uh let’s see I wonder if I should do a racy one okay all right I’m only five seven with shoes okay so I’ll do a short person joke okay here we go all right it’s working Roy you gotta hand it to you gotta hand it to short people because they can’t reach it on their own there you go all right what do you got my turn I prepared a joke about mobile advertising okay so why did the mobile app go to the psychiatrist because it had impression issues I like it impression all right so put asked if you thought my joke was better and put R if you thought my Roy’s joke was better and then we’ll look huge Stakes on the line right so if you want us to take a look at your app in a future YouTube live stream all you gotta do is go to appmasters.com audit masters.com audit all right Eric says installs he wants help with installs so he’s got 50k the reviews are what you know fine it’s a VPN app Roy you see anything on the App Store presence that you want to help them out with uh well actually I’m not really an expert of as much as Steve is but as an end user uh my my you know honest feedback here is really the first screenshot matters a lot and uh first screenshot just by looking at the first screenshot you can’t actually judge what this app is about so maybe changing the first screenshot to be a more upfront and more direct uh you know just like clarifying what is that that’s for could be great and also at the same time uh I suggest maybe changing some you know smaller things like app icons screenshots or subtitles or promotional messages so these little things especially matter a lot so these are the things that I can immediately spot from the product page yeah I agree with you I think like we said before like focus on some advertising I mean you think about a funnel if you can’t get it through organic then you’re gonna have to run some ads that’s just the the nature of the Beast and so what I would do is probably put VPN big and bold B unless you’re a big brand name which I’m gonna assume you’re not because you only have 50 000 downloads just make it big and bold VPN we do know that that works best your screenshots are butt ugly it looks like it was made in 1998 when I first started coding onto the web so I’m sorry Eric I’m just being brutally honest with you and access is spelled wrong so it’s two s’s but look it’s just Ariel I think you’re using font like hire a designer I know one in the early days now it was a kids app but when I it was black and white and I added some color and I didn’t change anything to the app by the way no ASO none of that just redesigned the entire app and paid somebody on 99 designs to help me do it just immediately flipped so design is important and with screenshots like on Google Play unfortunately like the icon is the big thing so I would start with the abcon first and foremost and then work my way down to the screenshots but again with the ASO earlier you’re gonna have to find something more Niche VPN securing fast you’re competing with the big guys when you just put this title you got to find something better than this and I wouldn’t like when I think about ads I wouldn’t think through I want to I would think through like what other markets might be high that have hopefully High Revenue possibility and lower cost per install so think about different markets not just like the big ones out there as well all right we need one more vote guys we’re currently tied from the dad joke all right let’s take a look at the app itself right shall we let’s do this real quick sometimes I get scared what’s going to come up on my screen I just move things around all right let’s take a look at the app for Eric ebb and restrictions see the paywall comes out oh I don’t like this skip okay I can skip that’s not bad okay people no pay walls show pay wall all right I know admob has this thing where you can do an app open page like ad so think about doing that I think there’s too many plans here this this paywall needs a lot of work one you’re making me tap twice right like pick a plan and then get check out like automatically put whatever your highest LTV is whether it’s weekly or monthly with VPN apps I think weekly is a you know a popular VPN subscription because people just may be somewhere and they need it for a weekend that’s all they want to pay for so think about weekly I’d lose I’d probably go weekly monthly and yearly and try to get people onto either the weekly or the yearly offers they tend to have the higher ltvs than a monthly one so let’s see what happens here okay yeah and then if you go weekly I would give a trial like a three-day trial and then maybe you don’t do on a monthly yearly maybe you don’t want trials but like yeah maybe you don’t need trials for this type of app but I would definitely do weekly Eric and then when I close this put like remove ads when I close this maybe you don’t want to do on the first one boom you show an ad right so maybe you’re not on the second open and Beyond that’s what you start doing so let’s see what happens on the second open I better see you pay you well Eric yeah yeah show that pay wall it says no ads so show this on App open I show this paywall make remove ads all these features there’s no benefits to this paywall either and then when I hit no to remove ads in your premium features then boom you can show me an ad and then make more money that way too yeah I agree with you Steve maybe I I can just like jump in a little bit quick uh you know it’s when it comes to the UA marketing uh for subscription apps I think like to be honest with you of course I’m coming from the MMP background I I do love measurement but at the same time I have to admit that almost like 60 to 70 percent of the UA marketing uh should be attributed to pricing payable optimization so I definitely agree with you Steve you should put the paywall up front and also uh maybe the payroll itself can be designed uh I would say with more benefits most more social proof with more creatives uh and images and that maybe if you uh if you you need a quick uh quick tool sees I certainly recommend purchase oh super wall uh you know as a paywall Builders and I also you would you steep that maybe going with the annual plan with the free trial monthly and weekly because sometimes people want to just use it for one week I think having these three uh you know options instead of like one three six twelve month uh could be better in terms of you know customer Choice um yeah so that’s it it’s pretty cheap like it’s like 12 bucks a year you almost have a negative effect I’m like what 12 bucks a year that’s and the pricing isn’t right when I tapped on 12 . okay yeah I think it came up nine dollars but whatever nobody wants to go premium you want to unlock certain things yeah it’s 10 bucks a year so like super cheap it almost has a negative effect for a VPN app like charge two bucks two bucks a week or you know whatever look at the competitors out there you don’t you know pricing’s I’m not going to get into it it requires a lot of testing but at the same time like you’re gonna have to I think I would look at the competition see what the big guys are doing all right we need one more vote guys Mary said Roy and then Romaine said s so somebody break that tie and I’ll wait for you guys hey Roy we got a question from Romaine as well before we well we wait for the tie he said what are your any thoughts on Apple’s Vision Pro for our publishers oh yeah I mean it’s a big topic itself a little bit far from the mobile ecosystem still but if I’m dancer of course it’s a big opportunity you know thinking thinking like back in like you know 2011 or 2009 and really all of these marketplaces came out of the world for the first time apparently only a few developers out there no one was really you know running for the ecosystem like today so maybe being there and build some of these AR applications or VA applications become the early mover in this space can definitely benefit in longer term but you would need some patience because the I think the VR AR and marketplaces are just really starting to rise uh so just like thinking about what we had back in like 2009 2011 2012. those apps that got released back then and really had patience to improve themselves over time really became successful as in now so thinking of that I think that’s what we can take from you know the recent release of the uh Vision Pro yeah I love it yeah I would just pick if I’m gonna do anything you know since the iPhone that has revolutionized everything there’s been an iPad there’s been an Apple Watch you know I don’t think anything is going to be as big as the iPhone was but it is interesting that apple is now getting to the AR field super pricey by the way and so I would say think about it but maybe there’s some possibilities here and see what was popular in the early days of the iPhone and how you can probably translate that to the Vision Pro okay all right George I mean George thank you George for the vote all right Roy I he broke the tie I won I won the first round yes thank you George I appreciate you bro and he’s excited to give about the Vision Pro and AR gets an upgrade yeah I think it looks really cool actually I saw the commercials it was like really good hey Roy before we get into the next app audit I want to ask you about this like you know I was talking to somebody else and I apologize to who was talking to but he’s talking about like hey you know app marketing these days can’t just be like ASO although you can I think so depending on how well you know ASO but like it needs to be Blended you can’t just like measure Facebook by its meta by itself you can’t just measure ASA by itself it’s like you got to measure all together and then start really thinking that yeah a blended CAC a blended cost per install a blended everything what are your thoughts on this yeah absolutely uh great point so like two separate words that we are living upon one is the classic type of attribution based on granular user level data the other uh world that we are living on but seldom we forget about it it’s actually the world of ski Network Google’s privacy send-offs so when people think about ski ad Network they think SK Network as part of you know the bigger attribution world that’s true but actually uh ski network is a whole new separate world and actually in order for you to really merge these two worlds into one uh you need to do that in a dashboard you need to use uh some of the solutions like you know airbrush and MPS to do that and uh what happens is actually skn network uh just like you know separately uh you know as an independent uh attribution outside of the classic attribution solution and what normally nmps would do is if the user is attributed to Sprint Channel campaign creative so we call this as attributed users and the rest of the rest of the users we call them as unattributed though only if users are an attributed uh we can count the skn network so we will tell the SK network if this user is attributed or unattributed and we will merge the unattributed users SK Network information plus the classic attributed users information and merge these two together which kind of uppercase the the possible overlap between these two worlds so to sum up uh two rows one plastic attribution based on granular user level data the other one has scan Network you can merge these two words into one and how it works is mmps Will normally uh you know so SK networks usually have six bits so just by using one bit out of six we would uh we would actually uh kind of differentiate those who are attributed unattributed and reflective dskn Network and help you deduce emergency to together so I think that’s kind of the best practice uh spotting in the market you should be looking into the attribution plastic attribution Network and if we go beyond that web attribution is certainly necessary as well I love it it’s getting so much more complicated than we’d like all right Roy you got another dad joke yeah unfortunately I do unfortunately redeem yourself well yeah I mean I’ll have the confidence so what’s the mobile markers favorite exercise what push notifications all right Roy you stay highbrow okay I’m gonna go low brow Roy I tried to explain to my four-year-old son that it’s perfectly normal to accidentally poop your pants but you’re still making fun of me there you go all right but ask if you thought mine was better and then put Roy or R if you thought Roy’s joke was better and last one we’ll make it quick for Joshua he’s got his app and he said give me marketing strategies and optimization to get to it was in Dodge thousand thousand downloads and I don’t budge for marketing all right Joshua I will help you all right Roy what do you see so far so this is an app that I don’t even know what it does but we’ll well I guess we can figure out together but yeah I don’t know what it does analyze your race performance yes I really try to understand as well uh at first glance I I couldn’t really tell because I’m I’m not really the you know the you know jogger Runner but I think same thing applies here uh you know just like the big uh VPN case is uh you can definitely work on the app icon screenshots and some of the elements that constitute the product page so just by improving the product page and maybe working with designers to improve some of the graphics and actually putting in the right keywords so these uh Small Things combined can definitely create a compound effect and you know contribute to your ASO yeah I love it Josh what is the main benefit of this app you know what I mean Graphics screen broken links I think you got a way more you don’t have a marketing problem right now it seems like you have a product problem in my opinion it’s like you’re getting these bad reviews of people who really want to do better so I’m gonna assume because and I wouldn’t put this like I’m so proud of you that you got 700 downloads being featured on let’s run you should celebrate that and I’m not trying to diminish that at all but I wouldn’t just make it known because it makes you look tiny as well and people don’t don’t have like adverse reactions to being that low so what I would say is a high school okay you’re in high school congrats bro uh 14 year old hey you’re out in Pleasanton bro that’s insane okay uh we’re neighbors okay all right so calculate your rate race you know make it big and bold calculate your race times have it be like run faster right or get a faster time on your race all that stuff and that’s how I you know lead with the benefits people don’t care so much about the features and make this big and bold dude you don’t I mean there’s so many great graphic tools out there you don’t really need a graphic designer you can use canva figma all this stuff you go on dribble with three b’s and get inspiration for app icons and app screens and all that stuff and lean in if you have no budget for marketing bro you’re in high school and hopefully you’re still in high school so I don’t know when you fill this form out but like think about like leveraging that like you did it for let’s run think about leveraging that some more talk to your I don’t know I’m gonna assume you’re a runner in high school as well but think about also from an ASO perspective like Leverage app for PR which you did right and then from a ASO perspective like running runnier coach fast and fit shoes and tips like I don’t know what that really means what you’re trying to do so you know I mean like I from an ASO perspective I think about like let’s run okay that’s a hopefully it’s a big magazine but I’ve also found that boy like if you go into yeah let’s run okay if you leverage we did this early on this if you leverage terms that don’t like that have a brand but they don’t have a brand in the App Store those are great terms and magazines sometimes are really good terms that match your core audience or your core audience or Runners joggers all that stuff if there’s magazines out there that probably don’t have a an app that but they have a brand that people are searching for you can leverage that brand into your own ASO so let’s but let’s run yeah Runner’s World I think it’s a thing I don’t know I I definitely agree with you Steve yeah yeah Runner’s World I do know some things so yeah like 10K Runner 5K you know like Runner trainer there you go running trainer if that’s what this app does this these are better these are better terms to go after 5K trainer right run training then your look at that Runner’s World Record absolutely because like you were the screen show was talking about 600 to 10K so definitely you have 10K already in your screenshot so like you know like shoes and tips is they’re so generic keywords and you can’t really get any organic traffic from using generic keywords so really drill down into specific years that you know seed is suggesting based on some of the ASO tools could be a great option let’s get into the app itself and go really quick through the app oh wow okay oh my God uh let’s just say I run let’s just say I take about an hour to do in 10k I don’t even know what to do right here okay 10K oh it’s a converter so if I run in one hour 10K I run 27 minutes for three miles is it 5K at three mile I don’t know okay yeah yeah oh I see well I could run like a eight minute mile I know I need to get better I don’t see what the benefit of this app is talking to me because I slow down oh and the app crashes yeah I don’t know what the benefit of this app is right now Joshua so let me just be simple because we can do the math if I run 30 minutes for a 5k probably can do 60 Minutes for her and plus I slow down you’re tired so anyways great looking app dude it’s a great don’t worry about it it’s a great way here’s what I’ve learned I’m gonna speak to you Joshua because you’re so young you don’t know what this app is gonna do but it’s a great thing to put on your resume it’s a great thing to put on whatever you’re talking about for college applications you know Roy I started a business back in 2023 20 2013. and I didn’t put it on my resume because I was like it’s so tiny you know I only did it for a few months but I was ranking number one for Batman decals and I was selling these stickers decals online and then I was talking to at the time I was working in an interview for walmart.com running all their Google ads and their PPC campaigns and we got to talk about she’s like Sherry shout out to you she was like hey Steve why don’t you have this on your resume and I was like I thought it was too small he’s like no you gotta throw this on the resume man like the show’s initiative so this is initiative bro like be proud of yourself you got 700 downloads keep at it but don’t just be like oh it’s a dumb app like be proud of this app too all right I agree with that uh Roy anything else that we missed that you want to make sure we cover no I think we’ve partnered all of the topics um it is 2 A.M in South Korea right now so thank you Roy for staying up I’m gonna bring you the energy once again guys if you want I got to really sit down with Roy and his team at Mau we had dinner so thank you for that Roy and he was talking about how like somebody if we can give a shout out to him we I talked to schmooty guys and they’re like hey we just signed up with airbridge suit we moved over and I won’t name the name we moved moved over from a different MMP and airbridge was so easy to implement and get it into our system and the data is really really good and so I heard it like he wasn’t you know I wasn’t asking him he just talked about it so it is airbridge dot Io airbridge.io if you’re looking to really figure out what marketing channel is working best for you and see the down funnel metrics you need an MMP average dot IO it’s the one I would recommend go checking out as well Roy anything else you want to make sure we cover if the audience wants to connect with you in any other way do you want to send them anywhere else you know always connect with me on LinkedIn you can search you know type in rohinam Arabic with you know you’re gonna just find me immediately so definitely appreciate you Steve for hosting me today yeah great session great time today right you lost we didn’t get any votes for round two but that’s okay but so I did lose that I’m sorry sorry I said Thank You George for breaking the die it is average dot IO and then next week we’re going to talk all about product Market fit with my boy Nathan Hudson who’s going to join us I got to meet him in London at APS and he’s going to join us live every Friday 9 A.M Pacific so join us on this specific YouTube channel I’ve got nothing else right thank you so much for coming on doing this Steve all right yes I voted us okay so oh I must have missed it thanks Mary all right thank you guys have a great weekend I’ll see you every Friday 9 A.M Pacific all right bye