| Source | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-JmAZbnD9M |
|---|---|
| Readwise URL | https://read.readwise.io/read/01kv42xegyqs8qf6xdy8tprq9w |
| Readwise ID | 01kv42xegyqs8qf6xdy8tprq9w |
| Date | 2026-02-20 |
| Author | App Masters |
| Category | video |
| Cover image | https://i.ytimg.com/vi/x-JmAZbnD9M/sddefault.jpg?v=69956373 |
[music] [music] [music] What is up app nation? It is Steve P. young founder of vetmasters.com and today we’re going to talk all about how do you convert the 95% of users that never are willing to pay you. What
strategies can you use to increase that conversion rate? And we’re going to give you some of the experiments that are proven and some interesting ones that we’re going to sort of brainstorm with our guest today. So without further ado, let’s bring in Michael Gance. Sorry, something came up on my screen. There’s the screen. Let’s bring in Michael Gance of Encore. >> [music] [music] >> Michael, welcome to the show. Welcome
back, I should say. >> Hi. Excited to be here. >> Excited to have you back. And for those who aren’t familiar, Michael is the founder of Encore Kit. It’s a a great product that allows you to turn these turned users, these premium users into paying ones without having them feel like they’re sort of paying you, right, Michael? It’s sort of that concept. >> Yeah, it basically feels like you’re getting something free that you already want. So, for example, a month free of Paramount Plus, a month of Disney Plus, a month free of Class Pass, you can take
any class you want in your city. Um, a month free of of therapy of Better Help. So, we we think of it as like, hey, I get that you’re not interested in paying. Why don’t we give you this gift? And as part of this gift, we’re also going to gift you some extra time on on premium. And what’s great about it is the brands actually pay for the user’s premium experience. So, as a as an app, Disney is paying you for that month that that they’re in premium. You’re getting paid. The user is on premium and they’re going to convert automatically to paid
after a month because we we make sure users double click. So, you’re taking someone who was going to leave forever, make you zero, and now you’re getting paid for a free month of premium, and this user is very likely to convert to paid. >> Yeah. I love it. I love it. And I know you prepared this presentation, so I’m going to have you have Michael go through sort of the problem and the problem that you’re trying to solve. And then we’re going to get into some of the experiments that we’ve done on our end. And Michael’s going to add some color into this and some of the things that he’s testing out with his client. So, all right, Michael, take it away, my
friend. Yeah, I I think the way we think about apps is that there’s these sort of two poles of the of the app world. It’s CAC and product. Um, and so everyone who’s in apps is obsessed with one of those two things. If you work in apps, probably you’re more focused on one or the other. But the the reality is there’s this huge group that no one is focused on. And that’s these 95% of users who come through onboarding, download the app, are really interested, but don’t get all the way to pay. And it
feels like there’s no one in the app world who’s directly responsible for obsessing about this group, even though it’s the largest group of people who care about your app. And so that’s what our company’s all about. Like how can we create the best experience for that 95%. >> That’s insane. And it is true. Like even Apple, I mean sometimes it’s even higher, Michael. Like I heard directly from through other sources that Apple says like it’s about like 2 to 3% is on average from download to actual paying customers. So it’s a huge amount of
people that are not paying you. >> Yeah. If you’re converting 5% to paid, you’re actually one of the best apps out there at doing that. >> Yes. Yeah. [snorts] Okay. You want to go to the next slide? >> Yes. Um, so we think about like, okay, if if you’re an app founder, probably you wake up every day thinking about CAC and then your subscription product. So, what is the latest way to go viral? How can I get more users? And and the revenue piece, which is, you know, how can I make a better subscription
product? What’s the next feature I’m launching? But you’re probably spending no time thinking about the person who came to the app today and declined at the payw wall and what experience they should have, what their perception of your app is. I think a lot of founders are like, “Okay, let’s get feedback from people who subscribed. Let’s build more features they want.” But if you think about these 95% of people who declined, if you survey them afterwards, most of them don’t even know the basic features of your app, not to mention the new feature that you made. So it’s like if
you’re obsessing about product features, perfecting everything in the product, these 95% of people have no idea about that. They have no way to understand that. You’re not communicating that in onboarding. And so none of that work you’re doing is helping to boost your conversion rate to to subscriptions, which is your number one metric that you should be focused on as a founder. And so we want to tie that entire onboarding experience to what are the features that are going to convince them to to pay and what are the ways that we can give them the most direct immediate experience of
those features so they actually convert. >> I love it. >> What I think what the standard has been for a long time is pay or leave. Like you have a quick onboarding flow. Um this is what the app does. Some social proof. Boom. Um pay or leave, right? I think that’s what most apps do. We don’t disagree. We think this is roughly a smart strategy, but the nature of it is people haven’t experienced your product. They haven’t had a magical experience of
like, “Oh, I really get it. It clicks for me what this app does.” And so, of course, a lot of people who don’t even know exactly what your app does are not going to pay. And so, what we’ve done is designed ways to get them into the paid experience that don’t dilute your your core pricing. It’s not a discount that you’re offering. It doesn’t make people who pay full price feel bad that that they were the sucker who paid full and everyone else got cheaper. It keeps your your pricing the way it is, but it gives people a different entry point to try your core product and still makes you
money as an app while they do that. Um, and so that’s what this offer gift solution is is um a way around just having that like hard wall where no one can actually experience your product. >> I love it. I love it. Um, and the great thing about this is brands pay. So, you know, if I’m Disney Plus right now, I’m spending tons of money on Tik Tok ads to get someone to try a free trial. Um, and so we’ve gone to these brands and said, "Give us an exclusive offer. Offers that aren’t
available publicly that are that can feel really like a gift like a month free of Disney Plus, a month free of Paramount, you can watch any UFC, you can watch any NFL for free, a month of Class Pass for free, Uber Eat, Door Dash, things that people naturally want." We’ve said, “Give us these exclusive offers that feel like a gift and we’ll get you users at a way lower CAC.” And so we’ve gone to the biggest brands on earth and gotten these these insane deals and your app can now offer these gifts that people want at the point of leaving. So instead of just saying it’s half price, please please
please come back and diluting your value as an app and undermining yourself to your main subscribers. Instead, you can say, "Steve, I get that you haven’t had the full experience of your app. When you do, you’re going to love it. Why don’t we give you this gift that you already want? Here’s three options. It’s it’s something free that you’ll love. And as part of that, we’ll also give you some more time to experience the benefits of our app. And Disney will pay for for this trial. And so, um, as an app, I’m letting someone experience the product. I’m still making money on the on on this user, and the user feels
like, “Wow, I got this gift. That’s amazing. I definitely want to double click and and take advantage of this gift.” Um, and so they’re now on your paid trial, and they’re likely to convert. >> Yeah. And it’s no it’s no sweat off your back like you pay you know what I mean and for people offering yeah >> you know what we’ve seen and Steve I’m curious your data but >> when someone clicks that X on the payw wall when they hit that brick wall a good rate of coming back would be 0 2% of those people who click the come back right >> um and so
you know 0.1 to point 2 is the standard >> like if we can get one or two or 3% of those people to come back with an offer from Uber an offer from Door Dash, an offer from someone that they really love. Um, that’s going to make a massive difference in your unit economics. And what we’re finding in sort of our initial test is around 10% are coming and claiming that offer after clicking the X. >> So that’s somewhere between 10 and 100 times the standard rate is um is what we’re seeing in our initial test. It’s still early. This is, you know, we’re a
startup. Um, but some of these, you know, the initial data is pretty insane relative to the standard, which is just okay, bye. Um, and almost no one is going to come back if you just say goodbye. >> I mean, you said it best here. I love this slide. It’s from transaction to gift. Like, it doesn’t feel like you’re paying money in a way. Like, you’re able to obviously users can cancel the Disney Plus if they’re not enjoying it after 30 days, but it’s a win for Disney because it is a way better user than an actual
like just a click or an install, right? You again back to that 5%, right? Only 5% going to pay. But here, at least when you have them inside the door, and I’m going to answer that question, Dion. Do does having users try a feature as part of the onboarding increase conversions? I’m going to say yes. We have data to say this, but that’s what it feels like. Hey, these people who opt in for a 30 free tra 30-day free trial are probably more likely to pay you versus somebody who just saw a Tik Tok ad.
Yeah, 100%. These are people who are interested in trying a new app. That’s why they’re in onboarding, right? They’re not just people who scroll, right? So, it’s great for Disney and it’s great for the app. These are people who are ready to pay and trying to experience. You know, if you look at your data, I’m sure you see it. The percent that even get to the payw wall is small. Like, probably the majority of people who download your app aren’t even getting to the payw wall phase because there’s not enough intent. So, the nature of them being at the payw wall, it’s they’re high intent. They really
like your product. They want to give it a shot. Um, and just that question of like, okay, can I give them an experience of the product to to boost um, subscription rates? We’re so in favor of that. So, once we get them back in the door, okay, Disney’s going to pay for 30 days of your free trial. Go ahead. That’s when we want to work with apps and say, okay, can we measure what is the magic moment and can we put a premium uh request right then? So, uh, you know, within those 30 days, let’s
wait for them to have a really good experience. If it’s an AI chat app, let’s wait for them to have a really good AI chat. And exactly at that moment, let’s say like, “Hey, Steve, I know you’re on the the free trial. We want to convert you to the annual plan. We’re going to give you 70% off right now and and let you have more of these amazing AI chats that you just had.” >> And so, we think of this premium window. It’s a window. It doesn’t mean that you just have to wait till the end of it to actually, you know, fully lock someone in and get them to pay. At any point in that window, you can wait for them to
have this magic experience and and bring up a premium screen at that moment. And we really recommend that. >> All right. You want me to go with the next one? I’m trying to vibe off you. I’m like, what does Michael want me to show? [laughter] >> Um, yeah. So, this is kind of how it looks. It’s like, hey, um, you know, uh, we get you, you want to leave. Why don’t we give you 30 more days to experience the product and Paramount Plus is going to pay for it. You can also watch any UFC fight, any NFL game, um anything on Paramount for the next uh 30 days and
that’s on us. So, it feels like this special thing that you couldn’t get anywhere else that we’re offering you as a brand because we believe in our product and we want to give you a longer time to try. >> I love it. Okay. >> Um and yeah, it’s pretty much zero risk. There’s 0.1% of people who are going to come back. Um, you know, some people say, “Okay, let’s just give a discount of our core product instead.” Um, and and that’s fair. We would still say, “Fair enough. If that’s what you want to do, give a discount on your core product.” If they say no to that, then
that’s a great time to introduce an offer. Steve, we get that you you don’t want to do even a discounted version. It sounds like you haven’t had that magic experience yet. let’s give you a a free 30-day trial um funded by one of these these brand partners um and get you back in the app. And so it’s a different approach than just that, you know, desperate begging, please, please, please, I’ll cut in half, I’ll cut in 70%. It’s a different energy to say, I’m going to give you a gift of a brand you already know and love. Uh and I’m going
to give you some more time to understand the value of my app as opposed to just, you know, bag bag discount discount discount. Um, and we always say if if you want to go discount first, fair enough. But what do you do after that? Right? Do you just give up? Because most people are going to say no to the discount, right? >> This is a completely different approach. That doesn’t sound like more of the same, >> right? I love it. And we have seen that longer trials, if they say no to that initial payw wall that sometimes longer offering a longer trial versus a discount sometimes for different apps
works a bit better. So depending on the nature of your app, like there’s a longer period that’s going to be not used, right? Like for example, I don’t know, I just went through the flow onboarding and payw wall and all that stuff. And they do 14-day trial and I’m just starting to again sense that like, hey, obviously people who use a period tracker need a bit more time than just the normal 7-day free trial. >> Yes. Yeah. And again, we think of these these free trials as windows the app can use flexibly. Like it’s not like you
have to wait until 14 days to really convert this person. At any point if they have the the the magical experience that your app offers, that peak experience, you know, give them a discount on annual, bring up the premium screen, try and convert them. So like with Flow, you know, once you have the experience of tracking your first period, that’s a great time for Flow to say, “Okay, like you’ve had this great experience. It was really helpful. Let’s let’s try and convert you. Let’s give you a discount on the annual convert you right now.” You don’t have to wait till the 14 days, but that longer trial
period gives you more time to have that magical experience. You can sort of wait for the right moment. We always say link premium to a milestone that the user experienced and and that’s sort of the best practice, but sometimes that takes time. >> I love it. All right. I think you’re offering something interesting here, Michael, too, like a challenge. >> Yeah. Yeah. We um you know for anyone listening um you might think okay um I’m not sure if this is going to work. What we say is give us some percent of
your users. Give us half of the users who click that X on the payw wall and we will increase the rate that they come back. Um and so we won’t charge anything for the first 30 days. Um we’ll run a bunch of experiments to make sure we show the right offers or have the right messaging. And we’re we’re saying, look, if we don’t improve the percent that come back, don’t pay us anything. All the work we we did, all the experiments we run, you can just take as your own data and use on your own. But we’re extremely confident that we’re going to boost that rate. Um, and we say we’ll
charge nothing until we do. And then, um, after that, we’ll take a percent of the revenue that we’ve shown we can win back. Um, so it’s literally no downside. worst case is you have a smart team that comes and runs a bunch of AB tests around how to bring back these users and you can just use that data and incorporate it into your own work later on. Um we’re that confident that this is going to work and um the reason we’re so confident is because if you talk to most app founders, even a really sophisticated app founder, like they
haven’t thought deeply about that moment of the person clicking the X. Like maybe they’ve run a few experiments. But if you compare how much they’ve thought about their core product and new features on it, like they’ve obsessed about every detail >> and when you talk about like, okay, what happens when they don’t want to pay? It’s like, yeah, maybe we send an email, maybe we send a push notification. It’s like, what are the open rates on that email? It’s like, I don’t know, probably like 1%. You know, what percent like actually respond? What if they don’t respond? Do you have a follow-up email? Do you have a third follow-up? Like a lot of these
things are it’s almost like app founders are like yeah we do something because we want to you know have have some sort of win back thing but it’s not our main thing and and I would really push founders like either make it your main thing because this is the majority of the people you’re paying your advertising dollars for. Like if you break down your CAC 95% of it is going to these people. So delivering a good experience should be your your biggest priority. And if it’s not like bring us on and we’ll obsess about that 95% for you.
Hey, it’s a win-win in my boat, right? Like like there no risk. Dion, I love our audience. Michael, they she or he, I don’t know. I’m sorry, Dion. But he said, can you use that same approach if users are currently on a free trial that’s coming to an end but are yet to engage with the app? And so maybe even a free trial cancellation is another opportunity for you to be like, "Hey, you were on that free trial. like you were interested, why don’t you >> get a gift on us and then get 30 more days of this if you need more time?
100%. And that’s one thing we help app founders with is um if someone goes to settings and cancels their free trial, >> that’s a great time to bring us up. So, um we can help you send a push notification immediately. Hey Steve, I get you canceled. We’re actually going to give you a month free. Come back to the app and and learn more about details. And when you come back, it’s like, "Hey, we want to give you a month free sponsored by one of our partners who we have these exclusive offers from, pick your partner, pick your gift, uh, take your 30 days free. Um, you know,
double click again. Now you’re back." And so, um, we can help with that whole flow of making sure that everyone who cancels in settings gets that message of come back. We’re going to give you it for free. Come back and see the details. And you know, if you’re letting people just cancel in settings and there’s no push notification, there’s no communication, you’re really missing an opportunity. Like why wouldn’t you communicate at that point, right? Like these people who are on a free trial, they double clicked. Like they really like your app. >> It’s just they haven’t had the right experiences. Like let’s work together
and give them something that that gives them a reason to come back. >> Friend of mine who’s also in our app founders community, he kind of talked about this in our community, allowed me to share it, but he what he does, Michael, is exactly what you just said. somebody cancels a free trial, you know, within the app somebody did do that and you can send them a push notification, come back, say 50% off, you can try the 50% off. If they say no to this, be like, "No problem. Here’s 30 days on us just by getting a a Disney Plus or a Paramont Plus subscription on 30 days of Paramont Plus and 30 days of our app.
Come back." It’s a win-win. So, Michael’s not saying you can’t still provide a discount, and he saw good results with the discount. You can if people say no to a discount, which most people will, you can also try to get them to get one of the encore kit offers, too. >> Yeah, people love free stuff. It’s like, hey, do you want your [laughter] next door dash on us? Um, come back. Right. And it’s like, that’s really compelling to people. And then once they accept that, it’s like, hey, as part of that, we’re also giving you a month free. Like, give us another chance. And it’s like a no-brainer to accept both together, right? You you want those
things. You like the app. No one’s asking you to pay anything. It’s it’s kind of a win-win-win. And you’re using the cache of these brands to get people to be excited about giving you a second chance. >> Yeah, I love it. Michael, you want to show a demo real quick? And then while you pull that up, I’m going to say hi to a few people. Louise, good, good to see you. Frank, good to see you. PJ, Joseph, good to see you, my friend. Dion, Shane, good to see you. Made it back. I had lunch with Shane last Friday. So, if you’re in there ever in the Bay Area, let me know. And then KJ Apps, I think
you were here last week, too. So happy that you’re back. Marco, long time avon’s here as well. Chian and Kevin who always sends me an email on every holiday. So I love that Kevin. All right, Michael, let’s show this off a little bit and I want to show it off because we’re we have it in our Indie App Santa app as well, but here’s on another a different app. So I’ll let you take it away. >> Yeah, this is an app called Ahead that’s integrated. Um they’re doing extremely well, have millions of users. Um it’s an AI therapy app. So, you talk to the app
about your problems and um eventually you hit this hard pay wall. Hey, if you want to talk to the AI anymore um you need to put in your credit card and they’ve integrated our SDK. So, when when you press this back button, I don’t want to pay. That’s when we come up and it says, "Okay, fair enough. We’re going to give you three months of ahead for free. If you just download Capital One, you get $10 immediately. You get discounts on everything you buy. Um if you don’t want that, uh you can get a free month of BetterHel. Better Help’s a real therapist for a month plus three months of AI therapy. Um, anyone who
claims this, BetterHelp pays a head over $200. >> So, a head has made more money than if the person actually subscribed to the annual plan for two years. Plus, the person after this is going to double click and um probably convert to a paid subscription for a head. Um, and so we can link what your app is about. Your app’s about therapy. Give them something they already want. A month of free therapy. Why wouldn’t you? Um, and you know, this user could make them threex what an annual plan user could because you know, $200 from BetterHelp. Uh, plus
an actual subscribed user. So, it’s pretty exciting that the economics we can get on some of these. Paramount get three months of Paramount, watch the NFL, watch UFC, all for free and three months of of ahead. We have these simplified signups to keep the user in the app. So, we open up this little Safari portal. Um, we have signups that are relatively quick. Um, and then we verify with Paramount, yes, this is a legit new user. Paramount’s like, okay, great. We’re willing to pay for this person’s um, subscription. And, uh, when
that’s done, we say, amazing. We’ve activated your subscription. You can just close this um, and go right back into the app. We activate your three months free and you can start chatting with the AI again. Um, and uh, you know, from the users perspective, they’re like, “Wow, I I couldn’t have gotten um, you know, three months of Paramount for free. Like, this is a really cool thing that the the app offered me. I didn’t have to pay anything out of pocket.” Um, and I actually was enjoying chatting
with the AI. Now I can go right back to it in a couple seconds. So, um, it’s really a win-win from the users perspective where they’re like, "Wow, I I actually really like Paramount. I actually really like this app. I get to use both for free. Um, and from the apps perspective, you’ve immediately made cash on this user. You’ve, you know, brought them back and and re-engaged them and in in two seconds they’re back chatting with the AI. Maybe in in a couple minutes, they actually have a great conversation and you can say, "Okay, let’s lock you into annual 30% discount right now. You just kind of got
how great this AI is. Now’s the time." >> Love it. Frank says, “Oops, good in good incentive.” Marco says that. All right, Marco. And Frank says, “Can developers in Canada use Encore Kit or is it US only?” >> Yeah. Um, we you can use Encore Kit in any country. Um, we work with the brands to, you know, we’ll have like Uber Canada offers or um we’ll um make sure the offers are localized. Um, so we work with with you on that, but we have offers that work in every country. Um,
we we work with a lot of the the biggest brands that have, you know, products internationally. So, um, we can make it work for for any country. >> All right. I’m going to keep asking questions. Does Encore Kit include analytics or do you also need to have Firebase or some other analytic framework? >> Yeah. So, um we set up um the entire thing. We give you a dashboard of this is the percent of people that are coming back. This is the percent that took an offer. This is how much money you made on each of them. This is the percent that resubscribed. And the way we set it up is as an AB test. So, we’ll take
wherever you want to set it up. Um you know, say it’s the X on the payw wall. We’ll say, “Okay, we’re gonna send 50% of those to whatever your current flow is.” Maybe you text them, maybe you whatever you do now. Maybe you do nothing. Fair enough. 50% of those we’re gonna show our offers. You know, try to win them back that way. And then we give you a a tracker over time, which is, okay, you know, we’ve had a 100 people click the X. 50 of them you handled and one of them came back. 50 of them we
handled and five of them came back. Um, and so we let you keep track of that in real time so that you can see, wow, this is actually boosting the people who end up subscribing to me. And on top of that, I’m making this extra revenue from the brands that’s sort of like free money out of nowhere. I love it. I love it. I wanted to show it off in our app. We have our Indie App Santa app that we’ve rebranded to Comet. It’s like a habit tracker. And once you complete the habits, you get this little animation where you unlock a surprise. You get the Indie app Santa deals. And you also get the Whoa. I’m leaving a review for sure.
for my own app the encore kit. So we have all this encore kit stuff where hey you’ve completed a habit get free month for all these things on us. So this is how we’ve sort of incorporated encore kit into our indie app. So I wanted to kind of show that off because I was pretty proud of the team putting that together. Uh all right I want to show this off to Dion. Whoops. It’s too close. Dion says,
“Does free giving away free features work?” Well, Dion, we had a friend of mine on called John. He’s also in the founders community. He shared this. So, he calls it a reverse trials. He’s got his onboarding, right? And then you hit at the payw wall. And the reason I left this slide in, this is all John’s slide, so I wanted to give him credit, but he shared this in a previous live stream. Anyways, valuebased onboarding, so not features, it’s all benefit oriented. I love the social proof that he has on every
onboarding screen as well. And then when you get to the payw wall, if you hit free trial, you he says, “Welcome to pro.” And then he gets you along the way. If you hit X on this, he says, “Enjoy a week on of Pro on us.” And then boom, boom, boom, boom. He gets you on the way. And I like this because he’s giving you a taste of the premium features. Here’s another thing that I love that we didn’t cover on the live stream is these notifications because he’s got an app that allows you to track bus times, train times. Obviously,
notifications are important. And I blurred out my address, but anyways, I love these pro notifications. So, during this sort of sequence, this second onboarding of the pro features, he’s trying to show you that some of the pro features might go away if you don’t, you know, subscribe. So obviously trying to get people to hit some of these pro features is valuable. It happens right here. And oh yeah, we remove the ads too. Explore all of it for free. And
then guess what? When it’s about to end, you let them know that it’s about to end. And so John can easily incorporate Encore Kit and say, “Hey, here’s a discount.” Which is what he does. But if you don’t do a dis if they say no to that discount, say, “Hey, get 30 days on us by just doing any of the deals through Encore Kit.” And what he saw and here the numbers Dion is his conversion rate was 04. So very close to that 02 Michael that you kind of referenced earlier. Yeah. >> These are people who are using who closed the payw wall. >> They never they never converted only
point4 converted. But after he did this reverse trial he saw 4.5. So I really love that strategy from John. >> Yeah. And the way we think of Encore is it’s basically a reverse trial that’s funded by another brand. So imagine a reverse trial that you actually get paid to do. Um, and it uses the same principles. I would say the main thing you want to activate when someone clicks away is loss aversion. Like people hate to lose something. And you saw that uh in that app. He’s like, “Hey, you’re going to lose all these things.” >> Yeah. >> Um, that’s what we try and do with with
these feature with with Encore as well, which is to say like, “Hey, right now we’re going to give you, you know, a free month of Paramount. If you click away right now, you’re never going to be able to get that again.” Yes. And the only way to accept that is by agreeing to to do another month free trial of our app. And so it’s like I don’t want to lose this like paramount thing. I actually want to watch it. I don’t want to lose all these features I have in premium. So like the safest thing to do is to to just subscribe and keep that and I’m going to get notified ahead of time if I want to cancel. Um there’s no
risk. So um switching it from like, okay, I don’t want to put in my credit card. There’s a risk I’ll get charged when I when I’m not sure. switching it from you’re actually gonna lose all this stuff unless you act now. That’s kind of the psychological shift we want to bring users through at the moment they click that X button is make it feel like gez I got to actually convert to this subscription I’m going to lose all this stuff I want >> yeah Leonardo yes you joined a little bit late but yes it does support other languages right Michael >> yes >> okay I don’t want to speak for you
says interesting I think guys from be present are doing something similar where they give offers to thirdparty apps based on your focus XPS that’s yeah it’s already been done done I mean Michael didn’t being it’s already proven in the ecommerce space and know like everything else like every invite I think of you every time I send an evite out Michael because at the end of every invite it’s like hey here’s some other offers for you and I just think of you all the time because that’s what they do you know like it’s it’s it’s pretty interesting
and >> yeah I think we we know that you know people love these brands and if these brands are you know willing to give us these exclusive things so we know these things convert it’s not a secret it’s just about incorporating it into a flow to to get back people who are very high intent to give you another chance. >> Hey Michael, one thing that I started thinking about as you were talking was this could work well. You know that web to app is happening. There’s a lot of people using web to drive people to their app, right? Like getting people to pay on the web and all that stuff. And
so I think it can well work well on the web because it’s already on I mean technically your stuff is already on the web. You know what I mean? Like it’s not like I have to download another app. 100%. Yeah, we have a web SDK as well. So, if you have a web version of your product, um we we work there and we have even better offers on web because we have stuff that uh converts better on desktop that we can optimize for. So, um if you have a web version of your product, we can do the same thing, which is whenever there’s that moment they’re going to pay a subscription, when they click the X button, bring them back with
some of these really great offers. >> Love it. And the app is called Ivon, the app that was I learned the strategy, the reverse trial, is called Mingo. I think that’s what you’re talking about. So, hey, there’s another strategy that I want to highlight here, Michael, that we’re seeing really good results with. It’s called paid intro offers. And here’s where it is. So, on the payw wall itself, and this is very similar to what we saw with a head, right? >> Where it’s a 7-day free trial, and this is rest. I’m picking on them, but you know, I love those guys. Anyways, the
monthly offer is the first month is $1.99, but it renews at the $59.99. And so we’re seeing this perform a bit better. And the way that we sort of pivoted in our own app is it’s 7 days free and it’s $60 or $1.99 first month and then renews at $4.99. So the way that we’ve sort of what’s the remix this on this type of pay wall. So one, this works. Two, the way that we did it now
is it’s actually a little bit cheaper if you just do the 199. We made the yearly renewal a little bit cheaper so that people can start to do the math. And I think that’s an interest for time and time again when you just do it this way. Even if you keep the same yearly price, it will work, but figure out ways that you can remix this and even make it better and improve on it. And we improved on it by giving a a little bit slightly lower price on the the renewal for the year. So, wanted to highlight that because I think it fits in into what you guys do pretty well, too.
Yeah. And one thing that um we’re seeing some of the smartest apps do is um you know linking these lowerpriced bundles to a specific feature. Um so I I think that’s something that a lot of founders are also >> um missing is when most people have onboarded into your app, your app has tons of features, right? Like it can do a ton of things. They might not have seen the feature that’s magical for them. Um, and so having these sort of simplified features in onboarding and
like and very limited subscription. So, for example, let’s say you’re the calm app. Um, you could do, okay, we have 30 meditations that are all about getting over a breakup. Uh, and we’re going to just do ads aimed at college kids who just had a breakup. We’ll have influencers talk about, hey, when you’re going through a breakup, you know, sometimes you’re stuck in your head. Um, you can have a just a 30 meditation package. It’s $1.99. Um, and the whole onboarding is getting through a breakup
is really hard. Meditation can help. Um, for $1.99, get the calm breakup package, right? And so you can have these specific groups that have very concentrated messaging and very cheap pricing. And it’s just a part of your app, but what that allows you to do is break down the features you have. Calm could be used for breakups. It could be used for financial stress. It could be used for a bunch of stuff. But you can start to run a bunch of these AB tests where you say, "Hey, this is the, you know, financial bankruptcy feature. You’re you’re targeting 40-year-old men
who are facing a lot of financial stress." It’s like, “Hey, $1 just to get 20 meditations about financial distress.” And now you have a much, you know, much greater clarity on this is the segment, this is the message, this is the price, right? Okay. college kids who are going through a breakup, you know, $2 these meditations. And you can run a bunch of these AB tests and start to get really locked in with your ad, your onboarding flow, um, and your pricing all fitting together into a
coherent package. Because I think a lot of apps have this experience where we have 17 features. We have 20 different ways people could use it. We have 20 different types of people. We have 50 different types of ads and people are onboarding and the reality is 95% are not understanding the value they could get from the app and and not seeing the the product that would fit them. And so, um, I think that’s the future of apps is having these sort of bundles that are
very specific, tying it to the message and tying it to the onboarding. >> Love that. Love that. I actually talked to the guys from Highly, a dating app, and one of the things I asked them about when I was going through the onboarding was on their payw wall, the last page, it wasn’t a subscription. And it kind of makes sense because for a dating app, you kind of have to like see what’s out there. >> Yeah. And so I asked him, the guest, I think it was Eigor, and I was like, “Hey, Eigor, like, is this working very well for you?” And he said, "Yeah, I mean, look, we can’t we try to get you to buy a little a low price offer right
here. This this is their payw wall, right?" Like he’s like, “Hey, look, >> here it is.” >> So this is the last page, be seen 10 times more, and it’s one boost for $299. And I love these little low price offers where you can try to get people into the door. And it’s to your point, Michael, it’s like get seen more. I’m in I’m in a dating app. Like obviously you want to be seen more. So it’s very interesting. >> Yeah. I think it’s great to have a very specific value that you’re offering that people understand they’ve they’ve been in the app. Maybe they haven’t gotten enough matches. It’s like let’s get you
10 times more matches. >> Yeah. >> $1. Then once they’ve you’ve delivered on that, it’s like, hey, you’ve been using the app more, you realize there’s this other feature. We can also give you that and we can upgrade to an even higher degree of premium. But getting them to to pay in a very sort of modular, clear way. This is this one feature you already know, you’ve already experienced, you’re already ready for. Let’s get you on the paying track for something and we can get you to pay more later once you understand the larger feature set and the larger value. >> Yep. They hit X, they could just easily
show it on Kirk Kit thing instead of what they normally show. I think it’s another person’s profile. And I won’t show that >> 100%. Yeah, you hit you hit X. It’s like, hey, $1 to do your first boost. It’s like actually we’re going to give you your f your first boost for free and we’re going to give you a Door Dash right to your door for free as well. you know, something like that that gets them thinking of themselves as, okay, I’m on this paid tier. Then they get that boost, they get all these matches, all of a sudden they’re like, “Wow, I love this dating app. It’s working really well for me.” >> Um, and and they’re much more likely to convert to this larger premium package
at that point. >> I love it. >> I we’re we’re testing that. So, we’re going to have some more data for you guys later on. What what we’re testing is after they hit X on that initial pay wall, could you do what you’ve been talking about, Michael, is offer something like a pack, just a onetime purchase, no subscription, instead of selling like credits, for example, like get to the other outcome. And so the best example I can give and highly gave me this idea was this like, hey, you can
boost your views by just paying a small nominal price. So kind of using the paid intro offers that I know is working for that one month that converts really high and then leveraging this like could you kind of figure out something after they initially said no on your pay wall. >> Yeah. And I think what most founders believe is if I make 70 features I’m going to have a way better product because people will be happy. Right. Um and if you look at payw wall data simpler pay walls do better. I mean I think you’ve seen this data over and
over again. less information, less options. Um, and so having like just a bundled pack, it’s like, hey, $1 to get a boost and get more matches. You might have a hundred other features of your dating app, right? And as a founder, you want to share those features, get premium, and you get access to these hundred features, >> but having one really clear value prop that the person understands and converting on that value prop first can be really compelling because it’s it makes sense to pay for something that you you get, right? If I see a list of a hundred things I don’t understand what
half of them are, I don’t feel like paying, right? Like, but if there’s one thing that I really get and it’s a cheap price, that’s really compelling. And then we can once I have more of a feel for what those other features are, I’m much more willing to pay so we can convert to a higher tier of premium down the line. >> I love it. All right, cool. Michael, anything I Well, actually, let’s save it for a year. Let’s get into the next segment of our show and do some app audits. like to start off every app audit with some dad jokes. [music]
All right, Michael, I don’t remember who won last time, but do you want to go first or do you want to go second? >> Uh, yeah, I can go first. >> Okay. >> Um, I uh >> ticker >> asked my app uh to go to therapy and my app said, “Why?” I said, "You have too many abandonment issues. Sorry, I was talking over your joke. I put a little ticker on to vote for win.
Give me one more time, Michael. For those who >> I asked my app to go to therapy. My app said, “Wait, why?” I said, “You have too many abandonment issues.” >> Uh, like it. Okay, I’ve got this. Michael. Hey, Michael. Breaking news. The CEO of IKEA has been elected prime minister of Sweden. He should have his cabinet together by the end of the weekend. There you go. All >> [laughter] >> right, put S if you thought my joke was better and put M if you thought Michael’s joke was better. And all you got to do is vote to win a free indie
app Santa promo on us thanks to our sponsors B7Dev, Appcreens, and of course, Apps Flyers. Appsfly as well. So B7Dev, app development firm that we’ve been in touch with for a ton of years. Then Appcreens allows you to AB test your screenshots so easily, like even me. And they have such great templates too that you’re gonna have to check out. So I know a lot of founders are using them. That’s why I was super excited to have them on as a sponsor. And then Appsflyer if you’re running multi- channelannel paid acquisition, you want
to you need an MMP. So go check out Appsflyer as well. All right. Oh, by the way, there’s going to be a SF event in Appsfly that I’ll be speaking at next week. So I’ll be sharing that on social media. But if you guys are around, let me know. Happy to meet up at Mama SF. That’s what Appsier calls it. All right. Look, you can’t vote. Cheater. He’s on my team. All right, let me get rid of this little ticker. I just wanted to try out this little ticker that they had
to see if we can encourage more votes. All right, and if you want your app featured in a future live stream, just go to appmasters.com/auudit. appmasters.com audit. All right, we’ve got BH, that’s all I know. That’s a person’s name. BH says, “Hey, I need help with ASO for this car racing game that they have.” So, Michael, anything from the App Store presence you want to highlight? >> Yeah, just starting with the name, um, car racing games, uh, MadMax Racer. I would flip that. So, MadMax Racer, car
racing, >> just because I want to see the brand, you know, in the title. Um, a lot of times the title is cut off if you’re on mobile and if I’m searching MadMax, I don’t want to be like, “Oh, I can’t find it.” and just leave, right? So, um I want, you know, the the brand name to be there. Racing is good to have there, too. But having them see MadMax Racer means that if they’re searching for your brand name, they’re not going to feel like, “Oh, I can’t find it.” And give up. So, that’s just one quick thing. Um I also think, um, you know, in the
description, uh there’s a lot of 2024. Um so, I would just update that to 2026. I think that’s a instant hit. Um >> good point. the um there’s 21 screenshots. Um I would pick your five or eight best. >> Um and I would have text overlays explaining like what feature this is showing. Um because you know if they haven’t used the app just seeing these screenshots, there’s a lot of really small text on it that you can’t see. One big text of that’s like, hey, you know,
customize your cars infinitely or like what is the message that you’re trying to communicate with those um shots. Um, I also, you know, I noticed they’re at 3.9 stars. I would try and get over four. Um, I think that does make a psychological difference. And so I would just add a rating prompt after a user wins a race. You know, racing, you win or you lose. When you win, you feel pretty good. So it’s like, hey, congrats on winning. Do you want to leave a review? Um, and hopefully that can get you above that four that 4.0 mark. Um, I
also see that they have a lot of um, you know, they’re they’re focusing on keywords like car racing games. There’s massive studios that are doing that. Um, so I would try to focus on something more niche like muscle car racing or offline racing game or something where they could kind of own those terms and and dominate there. Um, and yeah, one other thing I had was uh, translation. It’s so visual racing games like why not
translate it into Spanish, Portuguese, Hindi, Arabic. Like these are easy wins and I think th the it would do well in in those languages. >> Um yeah, those are a few things that right off the bat. >> I love them. >> I love them all. Michael, I I I like the the thing that I’ll add on is I like the icon. Maybe having Mad Max. I’m not saying you’re doing this, but I think Mad Max is a movie if I’m not mistaken, right? And I love that. Yeah, I watch that show, too. I love the incorporation
of a well-known movie brand and incorporate it into the app. Not saying you’re doing this, okay? Not saying you’re doing this, so Google, be careful. But I love this icon a lot more because it has Mad Max and we have seen that especially on Google when you’re searching for Mad Max, you’re number three. So, I love this video right there, but it’s not going to be seen when I’m in the app store. So, I would kind of piggyback off of Michael try to put in I love this icon. I don’t know if it worked better than this. Maybe you test it already and this one won. But
that’s what I would start testing as well. And I love your suggestion. Move MadMax, especially because car racing is probably going to be super competitive, but MadMax is not as competitive. So, let’s look up car racing games. Yeah. So, you’re dealing with a lot of big players here. I don’t see you too much. I’d kind of give up on that and then go to MedMax. Not saying that you can’t give up on it, but I would use custom store listings to go after different types of keywords. So, the MadMax Racer
would be the main one. And then you could even do a custom store listing page just for car racing games and lead on to that. Maybe a different video. Another one with, I don’t know, Grand Prix, F1, I don’t I don’t know any of these ones, but like any type of different keywords around car racing, you can use custom s listing pages as well. And that’s in English. So, what Michael said was localization, but you could also have multiple store listings on Google that are called custom store listings targeting different keywords.
Okay, I think it’s good. I don’t think we need Michael, to your point about the reviews, I want to show off something. Hide it like this first. Kind of I love what you said. Figure out the win moment. We actually I can’t give out the the strategy here, but we actually helped a client 2x his ratings and his average rating went up from 4.5 to 4.7. And the the content itself is in our founders community. I just finished
recording it yesterday, but and I give away all all the details there, but the hint I would give you guys is think about things that are free in the app and how you can leverage those free things to encourage more ratings. So, that’s all I would say off of that. But, yeah, it worked really well for this client and it’s it’s something that another person in our founders community already said he tried it and he’s like, “This worked. It’s working pretty good for him.” So that’s a that’s the hint I
will give you guys. Okay. All right. Gian says, “Sorry, Steve. Your joke was also good, but I laughed more at Michael’s joke.” So em it is. All right. Alo look. Are you there, my friend? Let’s see. There he is. All right. A look. Let’s bring you to the stage. H is out. >> Okay. Up. Thank you for being there. back up. Do you have the Let’s spin that
wheel. Do you have that wheel ready to go? >> I have that wheel ready to go. Let me just uh double check. I haven’t missed out anybody yet. >> Let me hit you with that, >> Michael. It’s time to figure out who won the dad joke round [music] and then we’re going to spin the wheel to give one lucky winner a free Indie app stand up promo on. >> All right. >> Okay. Yes, I’m ready. Let me share my
screen. Uh, present. Share screen. Scan. Share screen. Tire screen. >> Nice. >> Okay. Awesome. Ready. >> Got a lot of votes. Who won? Look. What was the score? >> Uh, I’m I’m just about to spin the wheel now. >> Okay. No, no, no. Who won the dad joke round? Who got more votes? Whose joke was >> that way? I think you’re I think you won. [laughter]
All right. Sorry, Michael. I see three for Michael. Okay. Who won this one? Leonardo. >> Blick. >> Blick. All right, Leonardo. I think you might have won before. >> Yeah, Leonardo, reach out to me and then we will hook you up on that. And so, where is Leonardo? There she There he is. Yeah, reach out to me. Just email me stevemasters.com and I’ll hook you up with our team. All right. Here, let me do a proper vote. Okay. do and look do a proper vote and then I’ll I’ll kind of announce the winners. Okay, >> cool. Thank you. Sorry, Michael. You
might have won. You might have won. >> All right. Ivonne says to use a keyword first title format, learn language app name for those localizations while keeping brand first for English listing. What what’s the question here? Do you get this? Von says, >> "Yeah, I think she’s talking about we were talking about localizing um the last app and so she was saying, >> “Oh, okay. How do >> you do keywords for that?” >> Yeah. Yeah, you can try it that way. Yeah. On Google, I feel like that’s
really way more important than Apple. I We’ve tried that trick for Apple and we don’t see it’s not like it’s going to change the game. Like if you do if you keep it in the back, it might work just as well, but on Google because Google with SEO, it tends to work a little bit better on Google than iOS. I divide the the question in two. Okay. Thanks. All right. Uh yeah, apologies if it’s slightly off topic, but since the US app store indexes keywords from localizations, blah blah blah, is it still good practice? Yeah, Ivon, I still
use a Spanish Mexico one. I haven’t seen Arabic, Chinese, Vietnamese do as well as Spanish Mexico. And so again, ASO is getting extremely hard these days. I just try to find a good channel market fit. going to be more important than anything else right now. So, all right, Michael. So, drum roll. Where’s my drum roll? I don’t have it to give you the score. So, I looked at a proper score and I don’t have any drum roll. [snorts]
It was seven to five and Steve for the win. Thank you very much. That’s all I have. [laughter] Where’s my applause? Thank you. Thank you. All right, let’s go into the next app audit. We’ve got pick up lines here and I’m getting a call from Google. This is Jeremy’s app. App store screenshots onboarding and payw wall. Oh, whoops. My bad. Wrong. Thank you, Luke, for watching. All right, Michael, take it away. Anything from the App Store screenshots
that you want to highlight or Jeremy? >> Um, yeah. I would say the, you know, I thought it was pretty cool how you can integrate the keyboard directly into dating apps. you can actually be, >> you know, chatting on Bumble or Hinge and have the keyboard directly installed. I would have um that as one of the first ones. I think that’s pretty cool is like directly have intelligence built into your keyboard as you chat on dating apps. Um, and yeah, I think um,
upload a chat, get the perfect reply, like showing that as kind of maybe the second screenshot, like um, someone’s chat and then the reply, you know, that’s a pretty cool feature. Um, and that’s very clear what it does. Um, I also, um, in the screenshots, I didn’t see a lot of like the profile analyzer and looks maxing stuff. Um, I know that is a feature he has and that’s different than other of these AI chat apps. So, I thought that’s, you know, at least one screenshot um in the top three to have
about like, hey, we’re going to actually make your profile look better, too. >> Yeah, I like it. I think what I would lean on is more value based on board like screenshots. So, let me pull up Yeah. Okay. And John said this during his live stream. see when your bus’s bus or train is coming. Like, you know, I love this screenshot where he goes, you know, elevate your R is, but you know, say things that make her smile. You this is what women will probably want more. Like, someone could make her laugh, feel good. And so, I
would try to think about like because I’m going to assume guys are probably downloading this app. Think about the benefits that your app provides, not just like some of the like this is starting to be there. Double your matches. I’m like starting to be there. But I think it’s more like we don’t want to just double our matches. We want I mean some people do. I prefer quality over quantity. But like I would want to say like hey you know make her laugh you know te amazing openers things like that
that get your foot into the door and then hopefully get you land more dates like so to speak. So I think I would probably lean to more value based. >> Yeah. And just looking Steve at this one is like the text is huge right? like the um it’s very clear and easy to read. It’s one simple sort of value for each screen. I think that’s a a good way to think about is like a you know huge text, big screenshot that’s very clear. Like that’s kind of what what we see works well. >> Yeah. >> Is abs like it’s I’m trying to it’s
scrolling, it’s moving, the text is really small in that first one, right? It’s kind of tough to quickly understand what’s going on is like >> um yeah, like make her, you know, make her laugh and then having like a joke that it generated on a dating app, like a big screenshot of that with with big text, something like that. >> Yep. Yeah. I like it. I like it. Okay, let’s get into the app. Jeremy. All right. Or Jeremy
This is why I need a different phone, Michael. Like, come on. I have to download all these crazy apps. Happily Married. All right. Here we go. Stand out instantly. Okay. Yeah, like that. There you go. Then these are all more benefit oriented. I think these are things that keep the sparks alive. Love that. Instant replies anywhere. This is what you were talking about, Michael, right? like, "Hey, the keyboard integrates with
everything." I think his screenshot about works on all dating apps is a little bit unclear. And what you said was perfect. Like, hey, you can use the keyboard in the dating app. Like, never have to leave the dating app, right? >> Again, swiping back. >> Screenshot would be better. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Screenshot that shows that would be a lot better. Like I’m on Hinge or Bumble or whatever, and then I can use the keyboard right there. All right. Customize my AI. Let’s see what I have to do.
How do you feel about text abbreviations? I use popular ones. Getting old Michael. All right. How would you uh Yeah, casual and relax. Oh, no. Let’s go back. >> For me, all these survey questions, I’m not I’m not sure we need these right at the onboarding. I I would quickly say like, >> do you have a a screenshot from a dating app that you can upload? like any screenshot of a conversation, upload that and then like here’s some replies. Um
like showing that value really quickly to me would be better than surveying them a bunch um right at the start. Um because if you you see like you answer all those questions and then you just go to a hard pay wall. So you never actually get to see anything you said incorporated into any responses. Um it just gathers information. Yeah. after you pay, maybe the responses will be better because of those questions. But let’s first show you value, right? So just asking you a bunch of stuff that where you’re not going to be able to do
anything with it before the payw wall. I don’t think that’s that’s where you should focus. >> I don’t know if I like this. I don’t know if there’s a huge drop off here, but yeah, I don’t know if I like I want to give you my phone number right away, but I’m just Oh, yeah. I definitely do not like this, Jeremy. Yeah, I don’t like any. Okay. >> And to me, I don’t necessarily see why he needs all that data. Like to I would I would have it be like, "Hey, like we
make you, you know, really funny on these dating apps. >> Upload a screenshot. >> You have a cool reply. Great. Pay to get premium." And then you can gather that information once they pay, right? Like you can have them, you know, >> log in through Apple and get get their phone number if that’s what you need. But that those are going to be huge drop off steps and and the all those survey questions are going to have drop off as well. And I don’t see necessarily the point. >> Yeah, he has a three-day trial on the weekly, but I can’t see that it has a three-day trial on the weekly. So, I
would add the fact that it is a three-day trial. What I learned from John, he uses pay as you go instead of weekly. And I really like that messaging on a payw wall. But what you want to do, Jeremy, is show this payw wall before you ask me to give you my phone number or give you my email because we’ve seen huge drop offs for that. And so you want to get as close to 100% of the people seeing this payw wall from that initial onboarding first open. And I don’t think you’re doing that right now. >> Yeah, that’s the biggest thing is getting, you know, Yeah.
getting rid of those huge drop off screens before the payw wall, showing some value before the payw wall. And if I click the X on this Yeah. Um, you know, it um, to me it’s a bit confusing. Like I would have one thing you want them to do like upload a screenshot and just have the whole screen. He gives you a bunch of different options. I would just have like one big screen like upload a screenshot from a dating app of a conversation then have them upload show the value right there. Um, and then say like hey you know to keep using this
like uh you have to pay and bring them back to the payw wall. Something like that. Uh what he does after the pay wall is he roughly does the same thing. Like you can basically do two two or three messages and then he has to pay again. But there’s too many different things he’s asking. Like if you there’s the option of like typing in a message, there’s the option of uploading a message. There’s a bunch of other options. So just keeping a really simple screen after the payw wall that’s just geared towards recovery and showing value um would make sense before we take you to that larger screen with the full feature set that can be confusing.
Yeah. And it’s it’s kind of weird like I would love to see a prof profile because I think most women probably are not reaching out to the man first. You know what I mean? It’s like yeah like this is this doesn’t seem realistic. Amanda’s not reaching out to Jason. Jason has to reach out to Amanda. >> I had the same thing. It was like it was kind of flipped and that was weird for me like >> Yeah. You know, >> and it’s so long. I’m like what? I gotta scroll all the way up just to see the value of this app. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. >> You see this screen here? It’s like
there’s a lot of buttons, there’s a lot of options. You don’t really want that immediately after they said no to the pay wall. You want to really keep things simple at that point. >> Yeah, I I mean, I like this. I just don’t think it’s well executed. I mean, people be like, “Hey, here are the perfect openers.” And I click that. I’m like, “Oh, okay.” And then I see a a screenshot of the person and their profile and then here’s some openers. And it’s like, “Hey, you try it out.” But this this seems way too long and trying to cram everything into one. You can have multiple. There’s plenty of space here.
Share for more. There you go. Earn 2400. Hey, another opportunity to use Encore. You want 20 credits for free? There you go. >> Give me credits for free. Give you >> love it. Okay, Jeremy, keep us posted. Let me know how it goes. I think just adding that payw wall before the the phone number and registration page should help you go a long ways. >> Yeah, that alone should boost it a lot. >> Michael, anything I missed you want to cover about Encore Kit? No, really
excited um to h you know have you on. I um I just want to say like anyone who’s listening um we’d love to do a AB test with you um for free and uh show that this can work. And even if you’re not ready for an AB test, I’m happy just anyone who’s listening to take a look at your app, take a look at your paywell screen, >> give you advice from working with a bunch of other apps and seeing what converts and um just having sort of a free audit with me as well um if you want to reach out. >> Yeah, that’s awesome. Hey, Michael and his team is gonna work for you. They
just want 50%. They’re like, “Hey, let’s I’m willing to challenge. I love the challenge, Michael. I’m really >> whatever anyone’s doing just because like we’re so obsessed with this. We’re working with so many apps to make this happen.” And most app founders, it’s not their main thing they’re obsessing about, right? So, we think just because like we’re so passionate about this 95% and thinking about every possible option, constantly running experiments, we’re confident we can beat whatever you’re doing now. >> I love it. Check it out. It is encor.com. encorkit.com. If you’re going to be at MAU, join us there. Michael’s
going to be there with me and we’re going to audit your apps live at MAU Vegas happening in May. And so, Michael’s got a presentation that he’s going to whip up as well. And we’re excited to be partnering with Encore Kit throughout this journey as well. I don’t even know what I was trying to say. Michael, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. >> Yeah, I love being here. Thank you so much, dude. >> Thank you guys for being here as well. Next week, I’m gonna go solo on this. I may or may not be here, okay? So, we’re gonna do this, but we’re gonna do a solo
episode. I might be going snowboarding with my brother, but if I’m not going with him, I will be here solo episode. But regardless, we’ll have a video for you guys every Friday, 9:00 a.m. Pacific. We got some amazing guests lined up as well. So, join us live every Friday, 9:00 a.m. Pacific. Have a great weekend. Thank you, Michael, for being here. And I’ll see you hopefully see you guys around. All right. Bye.