The Power of a $5 Upsell and the Art of Maximizing Conversions

foreign ation it is Steve p young founder of appmasters.com and you are in the right place if you want to grow your app downloads and more importantly those revenues and today we’re going to talk all about the power of an upsell look I fully believe it’s the Forgotten strategy win backs and upsells and so that’s why I’ve called this the art of maximizing conversion step one important advice something step two get them to buy a little bit more because it’s easier to upsell an existing customer than find a new one and today they’ll break it all down and how a simple five dollar upsell lets you millions in Revenue let’s bring in Lana dubinski thank you Lana welcome to the show Hi how are you doing I’m good so look Lana used to be whoops let me get my you know I like to be very professional here and share everything and I’m just like oops I forgot something but welcome to the show Lana I’m gonna break it all down I do want to say hi to a few people and properly introduce you as well if you are not familiar with Lana she is a consultant now so if you wanna if you’re looking for some help as a product leader go check out our LinkedIn it is linked up into the podcast episode and the YouTube and she used to be the senior director of product at IMVU in view you know the book the star of the company in the book Lean Startup as well so that’s the proper intro Lana welcome and I want to say hi to a few people what’s up Yash yes she’s part of our team so good to see you yesh and then Patrick is here too and I’m sure there’s more people they just haven’t said hi so hopefully they start saying hi as well all right Lana let’s break it down let’s talk about what an upsell is quickly and then maybe like some of the things that we should be getting to like do we just upsell them right away like talk to me about how you approach up the upsell strategy so for me obviously a lot of people like to sell users right away on subscriptions different things they can buy but let’s say that moment has passed they’ve either said yay or an A and now we’re moving on past the first five minutes and this is where where sort of the magic starts of how often and how do you continue pressing users to buy something or they want to buy something small and you try to get them to buy something larger in a way that makes them feel comfortable in a way where you’re just really feeling a need based on what they’re looking for and overall making it where it’s in flow not at all disruptive not at all feels greedy to the user and really maximizes your revenue and that’s with upsells and microtransactions in your app or your website well I always thought of an upsell isn’t like okay you bought something now buy something else so you’re saying look hey if they even maybe it’s called a microtransaction now but even if your user decides not to buy that initial paywall try figuring out what to sell them next yes um a good example a simple five dollar example would be uh in the marketplace you sometimes give users free credit or an opportunity to get something new and free and they spend the credits they have once they spend that credits on buying absolutely anything we popped up at IMVU this purchase success thank you page we had a thank you page anyway and the thank you page was like super important to let them know that the transaction was complete now on the thank you page we added a five dollar five thousand pack transaction like keep the fun going keep shopping we a b tested it heavily between 1 5 10 15 dollars and to like not much surprise five dollars was extremely successful it was the most successful and a very high percent I can’t talk about the exact percent but a very high percent of users um bought it this was presented to them every time they bought something in the shop with credits again they didn’t spend money they just spent credits that they were already given but this really was the Euphoria of like first thing you purchased you got that great you know t-shirt for five bucks uh or four bucks that was not real money but now we want you to spend real money to keep the fun going and this upsell alone made millions of dollars for you from users and what it also did is help convert them to paid users when in the beginning they were free and we’re just spending really free money to acquire stuff um in the shop do you think this would work like after a a rewarded video at all and be like hey you know you got these free credits do you want to now buy more credits at all because I’ve seen that with rewarded video like you know like watch his video or double up these coins by watching a rewarded video yeah we we a b tested this but you should definitely EB tested in multiple places if your users are just watching rewarded videos to earn credits definitely hey do you want to earn even more and this is sort of the opportunity to do so anytime they get anything either free or paid it’s like a little bit of adrenaline a little bit of dopamine that users already have in their system and so now is the time to get them to spend a little more but in a way where I’m not showing them an extra pop-up I’m not preventing them from leaving a page this is a purchase confirmation page it’s already there they needed to know that this happened and there’s just another opportunity for them to keep the fun going I love it okay and that is along the lines if you say hey every page is an upsell opportunity so Lana what are some pages obviously this is the success page the checkout page what are some other pages that you’ve seen work really well from from an upsell perspective so when I worked at Shutterfly for their custom greeting card sector well we really needed to increase revenue on transaction you can’t make that much money selling four or five dollar greeting cards so by the time a user was done making greeting card we already had an image and the and verbiage they wanted to put on the card and all we did was on the page of the cart we presented mugs and other things on which we transpose the image and the verbiage they already used in the card and it was like a one click add to the card scenario super simple here’s the card you made now do you want to send your grandma this awesome mug or this awesome stationery and they were all really within five to ten dollar amount and that did extremely well the average transaction doubled in um in Revenue because users were seeing something that was already in line with what they were purchasing it was a single click Edition it was not a separate pop-up it was in the cart already like or part of the card page and Amazon actually now does something very similar you know funny enough I have a client and I’m hoping to have them on so I won’t reveal too much of his details but it is a picture and sending pictures to people and the flow was you pick somebody first or you pick the the thing that you want to buy the picture right and then you select the photos and I was like I don’t know if this is right or wrong Lana but I was like let’s get them to select the pictures which seem more fun to me then show them that and then what you said which Shutterstock got me thinking like yeah like let’s do the pictures first so that we can throw them on these like awesome products and just be like hey do you want to send this and this this so like let them pick the pictures first yeah there’s the picture then whatever slur they want to say love your grandma you know happy birthday because like again the creative portion is like the fun portion in small amounts like making a book on Shutterfly slightly more painful making a card with a single photo and one slur simple also recommend slurs based on what they’re looking for and then yeah like you said put it up help them find it give them options with different pictures people really want something presented to them they don’t want to sit and scroll through what is this blanket gonna look like they want to see five blankets and this is what they look like with pictures on yeah and it’s such an emotional appeal too versus just being like you want to buy this mug it’s like no throw that photo that they just picked out and throw it on that mug and give them a taste of it I’ve been hug in the mug you’re very good at this stuff Lana I also wanna you know it feels like it’s just a a math formula right and I go to this all the time when I’m talking to like potential clients or just people in general and I’m like look you know they’re too they’re these yellow in my opinion are the things that you can really fix through marketing and product and all this stuff and so try the paid and it’s like this you want to make more money think about average order size think about LTV and that Shutterstock example is just that like they went from buying I don’t know like a 20 product and then when you upsell them that little bit you get it to like 30 or 40 let’s just say you made 25 more right like give me five dollars more that adds so much more to the bottom line and every transaction it changes right like I’m like because one client I’m like look we have the same downloads we have the same conversions but I’m making more money because I just charge more and it’s that simple and uh this can really also be used for subscriptions quite a bit I’ve used this model for subscriptions and a simple solution would be let’s say you have a dating app well one of those and for free you get five matches a day and for subscription you get unlimited initially you all from subscription yay nay 95 5 whatever it is and then you know they’re gonna go through the five really quickly then you throw up the upsell so it’s really anytime they sort of hit a limit and you want to set those limits in the right places it’s about all about where you set them that’s when the apps all happens it needs to feel natural not like I’ve gone through two and now there’s an upsell or let’s say if you’re doing dating app again and it’s responding to people more than that many people you want to constantly ping them oh this person messaged you do you want to respond you know please upgrade so it’s really making them giving them an opportunity to upgrade or buy at a moment which makes sense which is they are discovering something new that is now behind the paywall or yoga of studios for instance I know we talked uh during the class about yoga studios you know some content spray and a lot of it is paid but the big thing is don’t hide your paid content just don’t let it be usable but you want it there you want it there so users can see oh I got these five yoga classes free but there’s like 40 amazing classes whether it’s prenatal like specific type of stretches whatever you need but when they click to use the class then they need to subscribe but I think what people are missing is they put everything behind the paywall so users don’t always get a full view of what is available if they pay but putting everything in front of a paywall but the usage itself is behind the paywall that really gives them a little bit more of a carrot and it also is in discovery mode they want this they discovered it they now they’re excited Now’s the Time to get them for a subscription so I’m going to break down calm because you got me really thinking about their flow a little bit and they’ve changed their flow just a bit so I’ve got their updated flow but yeah I do like this and I’ve been talking about hard pay Wells versus like soft pay walls and lock content and I do feel like a lot of the things that I got from yours that I completely agree with is like one where I think locked content more lock content make it uncomfortable like give them a taste but don’t give them everything you know because sometimes you got you know if you built a great product well you need to get paid for that great product too and so do you think it’s better to like maybe give away some free content like if you look at calm a lot of it’s like locked and you have to really dig through and find the free content you think that’s better or just maybe like one thing is free and like maybe five free meditations and then after that it’s locked what do you think is better yeah I prefer having a few things free for users because a lot of users get turned off and uninstall the app if there’s nothing there for them to use and if you give them a few things to use for free and then start getting them retained a few things for free will get them to come back a few days in a row for sure if they like the product this way you can start pushing and push notifications discounts if for instance the first three times they see paywall they don’t they simply don’t convert and there are users that will never pay or there are users who are always looking for a deal this is not you it’s them this is the tab user they are they just don’t want to pay or want a great deal maybe by the third time they see a paywall you give them a first time user discount on the first month for like 99 Cents but just to get them on the hook for a subscription but all these things are important and you can only do if there’s something for them to do for free otherwise you have a higher chance of losing them so just a little bit for free just to get a taste and then it should be something like contagious enough to where they want to come back for it and then you know start with the free pay with the paywalls once they hit the limit or once they start discovering more what’s in the app you have an opportunity to discover and pay you all right well give let’s give some shout outs to romaine’s here what’s up Josh good to see you and Josh is going to come on I gotta send you the link the schedule uh Krishna says Lana looks a bit different than the picture sorry we got a bad picture maybe by the way both look good and then I think this is Felix but hey what’s up FC and then Samuel’s here Miguel and Rudy is here too so Lana you said every page is an opportunity maybe find those win moments are there any other pages that you feel like overlooked oftentimes that are prime opportunities to get a user to pay attention and potentially buy for me like the thank you Pages really Pages where after they’ve completed a transaction a lot of times the way to look at is not necessarily a page but when they have a little bit of a hit of a dopamine in them um when they have like this excited moment and something happens or they have fomo for instance that’s the other way to hit either you’re really happy or you have for instance let’s say other users um in the app have some sort of status the AP status whatever that status is don’t hide that show the badges show that other people have something that they don’t have and make it thinkable with an upsell so there’s two ways it’s sort of I don’t want to call it a carrot and it’s thick but it’s more like something amazing that just happened to you or something amazing that happened to someone else that you may want but really take the opportunity of people’s feelings at the moment to present them something to make them feel even better about themselves I love it okay I I just wanted to share this too because you know maybe we’ve seen asking for a trial but like you know calm after you meditate they do ask you for a review but maybe they do ask for shares and all that stuff and then maybe this is becomes everything is locked under this but this comes this after a meditation for all you meditation apps out there that dopamine hit maybe that’s a potential upsell and Lana you also talked about like potentially just getting a dollar from a user is good enough like you know there’s this online marketers we have this thing called a tripwire where we give something away for really cheap not free really cheap and then we upsell the crap out of them because you know once a person has committed a little bit they’re more likely to commit even more and so but you say just getting a dollar is really beneficial right uh we’ve done a lot of research and last few companies where I work and a b testing and we find that users who spend at least a dollar in the very beginning have a much higher LTV than Holding Out for a user that’ll spend 20 but at a much smaller percentage you over for all average user revenue and average paid user Revenue will be higher if you have a lot more eggs in your basket scenario get them in for a dollar and then they’ll continue spending for their lifetime yes it’s really like if you think about it you want to wait usually and see if they can spend 20 bucks but sometimes people spend 20 bucks not feel like they’re getting their value worth and leave people who are start in slow I’ve seen in the past in certain apps where they actually have a bigger lifetime value they surpass the 20 users because they’re slowed to onboard financially but they sort of keep going as they continue uh with with their product use so getting them give them a discount if you they’ve seen the paywall they have not paid three or four times you generally know where your drop-off is or you should know where your drop-off is for users after a couple times of them hitting that paywall and not converting give them first time user discount just for the first month you don’t have to like give away everything do one month for a dollar or 1.99 which I’ve seen work really well and then you have them you know in house pain and then the next month they’ll Auto Renew at a higher amount so make sure you obviously disclose all that but giving them a discount to get them on to a subscription is amazing then that’s the easiest way to get them on subscription some people give away the month first month for free that’s also an option but getting them to open their wallet and getting them used to giving you money is really valuable yeah and I’ll show you this example really quick too Lana you were at the SF workshop and thank you for coming along I have a lot of slides and so here’s the victory I just want to highlight this the this was the double conversions is what I call it the I think this was the initial paywall if I can remember correctly and they might have gone away from this but this is what they were doing one month for just 99 Cents and I’m I’m a firm believer I rather charge up front versus giving away the whole month for free and then it’s a year afterwards too so I like it let me let me ask you this I would love to get your opinion well actually let’s say you had a few people Dean what’s up Dean good to connect reconnect with you Neil good to see you in San Francisco as well Kevin from Lakeland and then Felix I was right good to see you here Lana I got this idea where I was thinking look on these micro transactions upsell stuff we have some data points that support this I believe but I think this is going to be one of my best practices show the initial paywall if they X out of that okay now I want to get your opinion a I want to show a discounted offer because they’re coming in valuable and so I want to hit them with the valuable offer or B maybe show that discounted offer on second open because we know that the majority of users do not come back the second time industry average is around 25 you guys can look at your stats first open and second open there’s a pretty big decent drop off so I was thinking like maybe it’s best to then optimize that first time user experience so whether it’s on the home page or even after they hit X on their pay initial paywall give them an offer try to win them right now because if they get if you even get one dollar out of them they’re going to pay attention to your app and then you’re gonna the retention rates are gonna go higher as well what do you think about that so for me it heavily depends on what does your app give away for free or what is there to do on the app if they click no on the paywall and then your data on at what point the users not come back or at what point do they drop off so for instance if your heart pay wall and if they close the the initial one they’re not able to move forward there’s nothing else for them to do sure at this point it does not hurt to give them a discount but if they close the paywall and now becomes a discovery period and you see maybe an average time your users in the app for five minutes and then they drop off whatever that time is that they’re in there you want to give them a little bit of an opportunity to figure out what they’re paying for or a little bit of an opportunity to really get excited about the app sometimes it’s jarring for people just the initial paywall and some will pay and that may be your best Revenue objective like you get them initially that’s amazing but some of them really need that warm-up they really need to be fluffed up here and then they’re in there for a minute or two like looking around now would be an opportunity to give them a discount so it a lot of it just depends what is there to do without paying and how long do you have until you know they drop off based on your data I love it you know I have Headway new I always pick on them and I’m hoping I get somebody on because I love just everything they’ve done so I can skip this right like this little sign up which is great but it’s not there so it’s super long right I get it seen this with fitness apps and then you get the the paywall and I love their paywall Lana because I I think this is the right way to do it I don’t know I don’t have enough data to support this but I love and this could have changed since I put this together but they give the 70 days a week when you hit a few other plans they have a discounted annual I don’t know what this one is why is there two annuals they have a discounted annual and I believe there’s no trial on that and so like you know what I learned from Jenny at our Workshop was like hey have a diversified monetization scheme like give people options if it’s your one monetization scheme is Trials then give them pre options so if I hit X out of this initial paywall I’m then LED with this free daily read and they just say you know that and then they have this free gift so they are trying to do this and maybe this is the best way to do it where it’s not so in your face but I can just tap this and then get that offer awesome so that’s one page yeah of course I love that the annual he it’s only it’s only a 10 discount so they feel like they’re getting something but you’re not exactly giving much away what do you mean what do you mean best value save 76 is 59.99 but on the next page it’s fifty dollars fifty dollars yeah exactly right I love that too that is good see they’ve got so many options and then they got other ones too and I show you tap but on second open every open they’re pretty aggressive we have a free gift for you you can X out of that or they do that and then they got challenges but their reading was very interesting as well where you everything is locked by the way so I pick a book I hit their paywall I hit view other plans I see other plans too I hit X and then they hit me with the 70 offer so they’re like trying anything and everything to try to really win them back now I said look I have no idea how well this app is doing but I can see from their top in-app purchases and let’s us Apple used to do this I don’t know if this is true anymore but Apple used to say what people bought and so I started saying like look these are like pretty high up there and I just love that they’re just like Diversified in the way they try to monetize right and it is all subscription but there’s just so many different price points that you can buy Headway with I think like it’s a little weird to show a gift in your gift is a discount honestly the button on the bottom and it’s a little bit hidden because the page is busy overall but I do like the idea of giving them a discount once they try to see watch a book or look at a book right then give them a discount hey we notice you like this book let us do you a favor 50 off and you can get this book or even if they can sell them just one book at a couple dollars and then or the first month is a couple dollars and then they get a year but once it’s a little interesting because some people just want one book and they’re looking for any app that will give them one book so you really definitely want to get them on the subscription plan without a free trial yeah it’s a different business you know one thing I want to make sure I we highlight here is I’ve seen this with another client was they had a trial on the discounts I believe if you’re giving a discount do not do a trial that’s just my opinion we’ve seen it work with other clients so I just think you’re already giving them a discount you’re never going to get a hundred percent of those trial activations into paying customers so just remove the trial one one client I just looked at is app he’s like you know uxl initial paywall I think he gives them a discount and it comes with a seven day trials like bro you first thing first remove that trial you know you’re paying for the trial with full price discount there’s no need for you like you’re committed you’re committed with the with the half price and also the users know they technically have a trial with apple they can technically get refunded they all know this I’ve seen refund rates on multiple apps so to me get them to subscribe get them to pay upfront and then also once they start using the product that’s when you’re like there’s no refund for you you can you know argue with appleback saying like they have in fact used the product but it is important to not give away everything every time okay so I completely agree with you yeah I love it you know you kind of talk about like timing and opportunities almost everything when it comes to this monetization I feel like monetization is one of the more important things and less talked about topics yeah I agree for me like definitely you have to understand when the user is ready to go when like they’re more likely to open their wallet but also make it feel like you’re not just nickel and diming them they they’re not just being bombarded with all first and not being bombarded with like buy this buy that you want them to feel like they’re looking for something and you’re helping them find it or they want something and you’re making it happen for them like you’re doing them a favor with these discounts you’re doing them a favor by helping them find this other content which happens to be behind the paywall but it has to be in flow and done in such a way where they feel good about it and it’s not a drop-off point you should be monitoring drop-offs after every upsell after every opportunity and just make sure you’re not losing more users than you should be yeah well on the topic of gifting in a different way than Headway has been talking about Lana you talked about gifting is a huge opportunity as well yeah you you should be always prompting users again to get something good back for themselves and a lot of that is same with the Shutterfly you’re gifting do you want to give someone else don’t forget your dad if you’re sending a mug to Grandma are do you have friends in this app maybe you want to give them a month free or you want to give them a little gift certificate whatever it is your app sells for instance yoga can you give them a membership can you send them a yoga mat whatever you could do to make them feel really good about it and then don’t forget reciprocity how can the friend thank you back so you get that little bit of a hit of dopamine that’s really important a lot of people tend to be stingy spending on themselves whereas they’ll spend on their kids they’ll spend on their siblings they really want to feel good about their purchase so I feel like a lot of apps really forget the gifting scenario and what can they give in certain apps yes I agree it’s a little harder to gift but certain apps have plenty of opportunity especially apps that sell actual Goods to remind them to maybe it’s buy one get one free for someone to gift or maybe you want to give someone usage of an app for like a subscription or you just send them a month and that also a lot depends on how developed is your app are you able to give them codes for one month that they can send someone else it’s you’re always thinking about the revenue but also how are you expending your client base gifting is a great way to expand your client base I love it the and it’s it’s pretty easy to give away another year like you can do coupon codes with an apple and then have that be a link so it’s easy it’s like if somebody buys it like thank you here’s how you can share this year with a friend and it’s pretty easy and I know Scribd or audible does this really well after I finish a book they’re like hey do you want to send this free book to you want to send this book to a friend of yours the other thing I want to share is again I love these slides I got lots of slides here you guys I love visuals okay so I looked at blinkist again and you can go through their whole profile but here’s what I notice that change so once I’m into that initial paywall i x out and then they they go hey I forget where they where I hit this I think I hit this on the the home page this little GIF icon I’m pretty sure I hit this GIF icon and then they said look all blinkist premium plans come now come with an extra account to share with somebody buy one get one okay yeah exactly and then they’re like hey you want 40 off sign up through email now I don’t know if I should have signed up and I probably will but I don’t know if this is like trying to get me to check out on the web well no we’ll figure this out but that that was very interesting and then their cancel strategy was interesting too where I was so I signed up for the trial this is all I always sign up for trials Lana because I’m always curious what people do when I cancel right and so I hit cancel and then like sorry to hear you go they want to hear more information and I can do keep or next so I hit next and like going so soon will also remind you like no I still want to cancel and so the reminder and then I was it took me I still want to cancel took me straight into the the Apple which is crazy and so I hit cancel and then I hit confirm but I thought that was very interesting what they did here this is what you’re talking about the cancel was the only pink portion and it was the main CTA right there this is why this is red it wouldn’t be my choice yeah that’s true my choice would be upgrade in red and cancel great great I can’t really see it I agree with you I think they should probably change it and blink is I think you should try to test putting this this monthly offer right here instead of you all plans to put or 59.99 a month like that’s it just change that text see what happens let me know if it wins you owe me something because you guys just sold the company so you guys reach out to me you guys owe me dinner at the very least all right Lana uh I think I want to save a few other topics for a little bit later but I think it’s time to have a little fun and tell some dad jokes all right Lana I know you’re eager let me just test this it’s working okay I know you’re gonna tell me your joke so why don’t you you want to go first for this one mine says not a dad joke but I thought it was super appropriate to do a product management job okay stick me well to stick up for the record why did the product manager bring GPS to to each development meeting because they want to navigate the roadmap but ended up getting lost in the never-ending Loop of scope creep and feature blood I almost hit the button too soon all right I got this one Lana I never understood why a set of false teeth is called Dentures they really miss an opportunity to call it substitutes whoops wrong buttons there you go so if you thought my joke was better put s if you thought Lana’s joke was better put l and Lana we’ll play for coffee drinks yeah we’re we’re close by okay next time we get together okay cool we’ll play for drinks a round of drinks lose their pace for rounder drinks here all right Lana let’s take a look at some people’s apps I’ve got Holly’s app and she was a previous guest on the podcast and so if you want us to take a look at your app in a future live stream just go to appmasters.com audit masters.com audit okay let’s take a look at Holly’s app Holly and Michelle shout out to you so this is the app and Holly says the onboarding and retention so let’s get straight into it but anything from the App Store presence that you want to highlight Lana no love the icon yeah looks really good and it’s a great book Michelle wrote the book it’s called magnet to money so really check it out and I I read the book and it’s really great you know I’m starting to feel like I’m starting to use words like Lana you know I feel this way too you and I getting drinks after the workshop very transformative meeting Josh in person very transformative restorative you know using words like this some people can find it like cookie but I’m like I love it because that’s how I truly feel all right let’s take a look at Michelle’s app and Holly’s app as well okay so allow sorry Holly I’m gonna hit don’t allow money money loves me and you anything here on the onboarding uh I just wonder why so many slides is there to show how many people drop off on those three I don’t know that’s something that I would pull one of our clients we saw that there was a huge drop off just on that first screen for some reason yeah so yeah and Holly you know shout out to Josh and I think he’s okay with me saying this but Josh said that you know having a video on his onboarding he he runs the miracle morning app and Hal who wrote that book the author he has a video where he kind of welcomes so I think for now Holly because people are probably fans of Michelle like maybe have a quick little video with Michelle welcome them into the app as like the first maybe cut the onboarding screens in half like initial one or two messages and that’s enough have Michelle talk have a button with like you know get started type of thing with Michelle talking and then Josh has done that and he’s seen really good success with having that video even if they don’t watch it they can hit get started and then get to the paywall really quick also some of the graphics in the beginning a few slides seemed a little bit more like like a game like a game I think that’s what I would expect for like a casino game I feel like this author is called Lower she looks amazing uh maybe even it’s not a video put a picture with like the blurbs that you want to get across just so there’s a little bit of a connection to a person yeah can we get some more votes please thank you George for voting but can we get some more votes on the joke ground thank you guys okay the other thing I would say Holly is I don’t know if I mentioned this to you because we got to work together a little bit on this app but like I would put a call to action Lana I know it’s stupid but like I like that philosophy kiss keep it simple stupid like I love it there’s no call to action and I would remove the trial on the monthly just remove it it’s not it doesn’t work and I personally believe in the rule of Threes Lana one because one is the cheap option one is the ideal option most of the time it’s going to be yearly sometimes it’s weekly and then the third one is just a complete decoy so add that third option and make it 29.99 maybe it’s six months and just do it that way and just add that and remove the trial on this page I agree with you on the CTA and also it looks a little weird to me with the star I would maybe just put on top a longer Banner that says best value it doesn’t look like it fits you know change the best value to save blah blah blah blah like we all want to save I would also say or like most popular people really wanna like they have fomo they want to know what everyone they want to have what everyone else has so yeah I like it yeah just have Ollie just have a button that says start free trial at the very bottom right here you know cool because people might not know to tap these things it just might not look like a button yeah I asked for more votes Lana and then it just got me more trouble meaning they’re all voting for you anyways I love this I love them trying to get an email address hey become a you know they’re giving away something for free I think this is I’m not clear what I’m getting so like instead of like become a money magnet to money I know it’s in here too but I feel like you know it gets lost because I’m just reading this in the very beginning maybe get like a receive your free money become a money magnet to money audiobook get a free out get the free audio book right just call it that free audiobook magnitude money change pretty dramatically between the first three slides where it looks more like a casino and this is like a beautiful woman a little more sexy um that’s the theme I would I would think the woman on here would actually convert considerably better in the first two slides sex cells it is what it is she looked this image looks great but I would just continue a theme maybe it looked a little disconnected Lana on your point right like this is why I love doing this because I’m always learning all right let’s see what happens I’m gonna take a screenshot this the thank you page you said hey upsell opportunity on the thank you page right purchase complete let’s see what happens here yeah here another upsell right I obviously am invested I gave you an email that might be an opportunity to upsell and give me a discount on that because obviously I showed some intent right or like hey do you want to send this to a friend um half off to send to a friend I love that yeah I love that like all your friends should be rich like you didn’t you want to send this to your sister mother brother like it’s an opportunity yeah I love it I love it okay and I would no I don’t like the upgrade to premium I just say unlock all content right like or become a money magnet but yeah so they got some free stuff the affirmations and stuff you can’t hear it but it’s going there’s a free gift oh I already did it though so I already did that all right let’s take a look at the second open okay you know this is where I would probably I would try to test around with having a promo here on that second open 10 off no trial or you know 29.99 no trial things like that and see if that would work here offer in the year I agree don’t do the don’t do 25 that give give them options just give them 20 one option let’s go all right anything else you want to cover on this app I think the main thing is I would just try to make it look a little bit more cohesive just because sometimes it’s water sometimes it’s a little more gamified and I feel like maybe combine the two or have one or the other but between screens except the background there’s not much cohesiveness all right Lana let’s take a look at the tally George how dare you Felix thank you you’re a real one Romaine you traitor and then Slava gave l so you win that one if you don’t have another one do you because I had you have another can I make it up or are we just doing one round that’s it you have another joke Lana are you frozen no you have no more jokes okay many good ones I should say all right well I’ll give you one okay because I always like having two let me try to find this one okay I’ll give you this one okay here we go ready right button right finger all right Lana I married my wife for her looks though not the one she’s been giving me lately there you go I like that one I have a feeling of you buying you a drink my wife did not like that one but okay hey Lana let’s talk about push notifications and opportunities there have you been using push notifications just to re-engage how have you what are the some of the I’ll start with the generic answer softball like what are the best practices for push notifications and then I’m gonna hit you with some hard ball once too okay so what’s stoppable give me so I’ve spent quite a bit of time on push notifications and testing them and getting more users to opt in what I found to be really successful is uh specific push notifications opt-in instead of forcing the user to opt in for everything and it depends if your app has extensive amount of push notifications like when your friends online when there’s an offer different things some people get overwhelmed with the push notification amounts and in those cases you should have a page where they can opt in to specific notifications or opt out of some notifications for instance in most apps I’m more interested in the discounts like fine you can push that to me or like my daily spin or whatever it is that I’m gonna get I want to get those push notifications but I’m really not interested when Joe you know and Harry are online like that’s not what I’m looking for and so you don’t want people opting out and the way to do that is to only to make sure they’re only getting up push notifications that they opted in for so it’s like a micro push notification selection and that’s really helpful in in terms of what you’re getting also dear God click please rate limit your push notifications I feel like certain apps will push three or four in a day certain apps will do like one a day but there really should be a rhyme on reason and like are you what is your opt-out after these personal notifications you should be smart about it maybe even test them on certain amount of people and see what the click-through is my motto in general is a B test everything and that should include push notifications yeah I love it I think one of the opportunities that we’ve seen so shout out to you Masood who’s in our app Masters Elite Community you share this I got his permission to share it I was like hey you want to do a video about this so he said look I started sending push notifications to people who cancel their trial to come back this was push notification come back and save open the app save 50 off sends that push here’s his pop-up again this is pretty easy to create I mean Apple will do it for you or you can create your own custom page and he’s starting to see revenues come out of that like this is an opportunity to win back and use push to win back your customers so I’m assuming it’s not that hard and I’ve heard from purchasly guys it’s not that hard to figure out when somebody’s canceled Apple will tell you it’s an event and so now you have that data you can send it into Firebase you can send it to whatever CRM you have and then send them a push and try to win them back because what’s the harm they don’t open it that’s fine but there it is I love this thing okay great I think it looks awesome and you like I said you have nothing to lose nothing I think percent off they already hit cancel they showed some in 10 they started activation you know they started a trial now you’re trying to win them back I completely agree okay Lana let’s get into our next app audit let me pull it up Dominique Dominique can I throw a curveball at you wanna what is the best like flirt or male approach that you’ve gotten because that’s what this app does it’s out of flirt Dominique’s got an app on how to teaches you how to flirt so what’s been the best pickup line you’ve heard it’s been a while I’ve been married for 18 years but I am really happy there’s an app on this I have to say like genius I I have au pair and my pair it’s lovely young I’ve heard some of the pickup jokes used on her and I’m just like shocked shocked everyone should subscribe to this app like run now run now I love it well I’ll give you some ASO stuff I don’t know if how to flirt is a lot of keyword volume but let’s take a quick peek at my favorite tool to use when it comes to ASO and just keyword research is I follow not paying me for this I just really like their tool and so uh I keep plugging them but let’s put flirt and let’s just see what kind of traffic it has because I don’t mind the name flirt Guru what about pickup line Guru so let’s see there’s any traffic whatsoever on that keyword because I feel like flirt just means not bad 36 you know I did a video you guys should check it out it is about what keyword volume we should go after that and we have two keywords ranking around that 30. we are number one for those two keywords but it’s about a hundred downloads a day and then one app is making six figures one app is making anywhere from four to five thousand dollars being number one all organically so flirt not too bad let’s look up pickup lines see if pick up lines shows up here pick it was that it was a pickup artist so is it p-u-a so pick up pick up lines yeah let’s see if there’s any volumes on this best pickup lines Taxi back 17. not bad so you want to go have Thriller flirt for alert put a space on there and then maybe look best pickup lines there you go that’s how you change your title a little bit and if you got other apps are you all mental it’s just all one app then just change your name to like flirt Guru best pickup lines we do know that from an ASO perspective this does help it might not move the needle completely but you know any little small win would do and then I’ve been talking about this but I’ll highlight it one more time for all you newbies out there and obviously I know a little bit about YouTube optimization let’s see if he’s already doing it right back home you want to have the keywords in here so call this flirt Guru best pickup lines again you want to put your tags video tags in here and those video tags should I don’t know I mean maybe you want to go after some of your competitors with me so these keywords and then maybe some dating apps popular dating apps you want to put that in the tags of your YouTube because what that will do is when we’ve seen like small results but try to hack this similar apps and this is the Google Play explore downloads and that’s what helps with that so if you’re already having a video great might as well optimize that video to potentially help it with the ASO side of things all right um not anything you want to add to this is loving it would be so it’s not a subscription because it’s only if it’s like yeah let’s take a look because I have no idea what it is sorry Michelle I’m gonna move you out of the way come over to this screen I’ll take a look at this flirt Guru app okay krishnar krishnar you you want to pay me it’s like live video maximum resolutions for 720 please upgrade if it’s possible because small letters of screenshot are not visible sometimes I should start a GoFundMe all right for sure just do cheap all right I’m like all right we’ve we’ve done yo what’s happening with this app it’s not loading Dominique all right so this is what I would normally do if your app did this to me still not loading I am connected to the internet because I was able to download the app earlier all right Felix says something that would be neat if not already implemented or considered is to add AI such as chat gbt to help generate additional ways to flirt effortlessly Dominique what’s wrong with your app bro um shoot with the powerful I’m just reading through the description to see if there’s any AI stuff try these NLP bass oh Lana I read these NLP books back in the day neural linguistic programming it’s a while back it’s a while back it’s been a while I think it’s my one comment here would be I would a B test different icons yeah because again sex sells yourself sex here but this icon looks like you’re selling me not sex yeah I don’t know quite sure what’s like on selling and I’ve run a B test on app icons before and the difference can be really considerable yeah I completely agree with you I think it’s a great point I would do that I kind of like this one out of all of them and especially on Google Play when you search for something like flirt it just it is the the icon and the there’s no screenshots right so the icon is really one of the more visible things and what I what we’ve also learned is if you use that word like flirt in your icon it actually helps with the the download conversions as well so you wanna do that you want to put that name maybe big right here kind of like this says dating you want to put that as flirt okay it’s still not loading for me sometimes you you don’t want to be too busy because you want your app once someone downloads too easy to find on your phone but sometimes having images there really helps not just like an icon yeah let’s look up a couple of games and see what we get nothing too spicy maybe here some spicy this is definitely spicy yeah like we feel right here yeah look at this definitely these icons you know what you’re getting here right yeah I like this one yeah uh it’s a peach for those listings just the audio version okay unfortunately Dominique your app is still not loading for me I don’t know what’s wrong so maybe just fill out the form again if you want me to look at it in a future episode but Lana let me look through my notes I don’t know if there’s anything we missed anything that we missed that you want to make sure we covered uh I think the main thing is it’s super important for people to able test everything because and you want to monitor user drop off user lifetime value just make sure you test and monitor that’s super important and make sure your a b tests go to statistical significance don’t just like run it for a day see some good results and turn around for everyone that’s really important I love it well it is if you want to reach out to Lana and work with her just go to her LinkedIn it is linked up into your favorite podcast app and the YouTube description as well or just search for Alana doobie I’m just kidding on LinkedIn and you will find it there too Lana told me the joke before and that’s what I’m trying to incorporate it and nothing else Lonnie you want to send the audience anywhere else if you want them to connect with you no this is perfect thank you so much no thank you for coming on I want to give a shout out to my partners in crime where we did the the the workshop and we’re gonna do more so go check out airbridge there’s this marketing mix modeling in action so really it is just about a holistic view of UA Apple search ads Facebook Tick Tock all that and organic and how it all relates rather than just really keying in on that one it’s a great white paper go check it out it is linked up into the show notes or go just go to airbridge in the future of marketing marketing mix modelings here go to that and then go check out purchasly if you want to start a live a b testing these pay walls these upsell options like Lana has talked about they make it really super easy they got great templates so purchasly.com and next week we are going to have Roy from airbridge to really break down holistic app marketing what are the channels we should be focused on how do we really approach UA and paid acquisition and how does that all tie into everything else from organic to everything from conversions to all that stuff how do we track it especially with all the Privacy stuff so he’s going to break it all down next week and every Friday at 9am Pacific and go reach out to Lana she’s been great thank you Lana for coming on I learned a lot thank you so much for coming on thank you guys for the attention I appreciate you I hope to meet you guys in person we’re just at I was just at Mau I think it was last week no yeah it was last week oh my God all right I was just at Mau and it got to meet a lot of great people in person live so hopefully I’ll see you in in person live as well Lana thank you much have a great weekend I don’t even know I’m babbling now I should end this once I end this already let’s end this all right thank you thank you guys have a great weekend I’ll talk to you next Friday bye