| Source | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bjxtq1anlUg |
|---|---|
| Readwise URL | https://read.readwise.io/read/01kv42rgxg65dm8tq2aqgra42j |
| Readwise ID | 01kv42rgxg65dm8tq2aqgra42j |
| Date | 2023-07-21 |
| Author | App Masters |
| Category | video |
| Cover image | https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Bjxtq1anlUg/sddefault.jpg?v=64b6cc54 |
foreign [Music] what is up app Nation live from Toronto where we’re doing an MGS collaboration and we’re doing a workshop at MGS Canada I hopped out of the event just to make sure I do not delay this talk any
further with my friend moyo he’s generated over 12 million downloads as an indie developer has gone to sell an app portfolio of his own we’re going to talk all about the lessons he’s learned from the old days of the app space and how he’s applying it to the new age of the app space so without further Ado let’s bring in moyo [Music] thank you
what’s up oil yo happy to be here how are you good man I want to say hi to a few people Kevin’s here Ricardo hey fam how’s everything and then Adrian fellow Blue cows are better man and the nurix is here as well Miguel let’s do this and then waruna is here fam double connotations moyo Fridays
without Masters and of course for our fan here too with AB Masters there you go my friend hey let’s break it down Boyle here I’m going to pull up your app portfolio but I’d love to learn I think as Indie developers one of the I don’t know I’m just speaking for myself but one of the end goals is to always sell the babies that we’ve built and made it profitable and to sell them off so here’s your apps but what has been your experience with selling your app portfolio yeah yeah um happy to be here thanks for that man
um I think that’s the goal sometimes but then it’s also not the goal so I sold my portfolio I think that was in 2015. um have a lot more apps at that time mostly on iOS actually I think it’s only iOS I sold and you know um you had the episode or a couple episodes with the blue Throne guys and I think they broke it down really well you know um the buyers that we’re looking at at
my portfolio were concerned mostly with the the monthly Revenue it was making um and basically the the more you’re generating um the more the more you’re going to be able to command from a sale so um it was pretty cool for me it’s the probably the biggest check I ever got at once but nice um so it was life changing in a way but it wasn’t the kind of money that I would never have to work again or anything like that
um but yeah man the the thing that I kind of said makes it not the goal is that I realized after the fact I was like okay you know I kind of got used to just Revenue coming in without me having to do anything um and you get that big pop but then that recurring revenue is gone so um you have to kind of weigh your options there see what the next thing is that you want to do and um you know maybe it makes sense maybe it doesn’t do
you have any sellers regret sellers regret no um no I like I I don’t I wasn’t emotionally attached to my portfolio in any way I think it was a good deal for me at the time um I just I guess I just didn’t know how it was going to feel to just you know you get used to oh it’s it’s eight o’clock in the morning I made X hundreds of dollars and that’s no longer the case but I I will also say at
that time that I sold it was a good time for me because um the App Store was changing up a lot you know the algorithms weren’t the same my Revenue was on the decline um so yeah it was perfect for me yeah I want to get into that and how you’ve sort of you know we come from the days of like three skinny days the blue cloud Carter Thomas type of days but like before I get there what were some of the more surprising things that you learned I try to buy an app Mario we bought an
app in 2021 and then oh no 2022 beginning in 2022 and that was a nice seamless experience I was like for my first time buying an app I was like yo and then we were able to 10x the revenues the monthly revenues yeah that’s awesome and then I try to buy another app and we agree on a price he ended up backing out at the last moment but what were some of the surprising things that you learned throughout the whole entire process from sharing your revenues your download data and maybe the more surprising questions you got from the buyer hmm yeah it’s it’s been a while but
um what was surprising you know I I guess you know I I guess you get used to to a certain thing you get used to your business and you you might not realize how valuable um like how valuable recurring revenue is to some somebody else you know what I mean if you’re just used to hey this is my business this is what it does um but if you can actually get a business to that point um there are people you know a lot of
people with money would they’re looking at it as hey um if I invest this much money what is my ongoing return yeah um and so you know they might see it as more valuable than you do you know and I guess once you get to the unders other side you might start to get that a bit more yeah this one I’ve had this one since 2019 uh you are yeah it’s it’s I’m actually pushing it now and it’s going
pretty well so I I hopefully it can continue um yeah it’s interesting no what do we what might be a great transition I was trying to show off some of the apps that you have it might be a great transition here to talk about what have you learned from leveraging all the knowledge you had from the 2015 to 2013 days when you probably got started when like I did like what have you learned to now bring it into this like you I feel like there’s a new age you know of yeah right now and I feel like okay well we can’t do all the you know spammy things we
used to do in the past have you learned what have you learned with these new app launches yeah um so I think that there are things from the past that carry over um in terms of I think that no matter no matter what your app is um how much you spent on it the features you’re always going to need to find a way to get attention for it and often often like some good principles to stand
on or just making sure that there is demand for the kind of thing that you’re doing there’s like communities that care about that in in the past I used to be I guess more heavy-handed about the way that I did that and what I mean by that is okay um there’s a game called Temple Run there’s a game called bike racer there’s a game called Subway Surfers I I want to find a way to incorporate all of their names into my title in metadata so I can
surf off of their traffic right yeah and um so I I would do stuff like that and sometimes it would really really work um that’s really that’s really not what you want to do in my opinion but you do like you do want to find um ways to just identify ideas that are popular or you know things that people like doing and they care about and then figure out how you can create like a quality experience that
people will want to use over and over and over um and like marry it to that attention if that makes sense it does I think this is a great example of what you’re able to accomplish I mean man it’s hard just working off one monitor here okay like where are all of my tabs this is a great example of what you’ve been able to do with this app it’s just like you know the adult coloring book was a theme
that was popping off and then you built the black culture and so I love what you did here talk to me about what you’ve done because you’ve got like 400 000 users and you took a spin you’re like hey adult coloring books but I want to do it for the Black Culture like how how did you approach the launch for this type of app right right so this um it first launched in 2019 and yeah the thought process I just saw all those adult coloring books I started playing around with them I saw why they were popular I said okay you know this is
pretty chill it’s pretty relaxing I get it um and as I’m using them I say okay like there’s just not a lot of black people in them right and so um I’ve seen other product categories where that’s been the case and people have been able to provide a good experience like that you know whether um it’d be black people Hispanic people Asian you know right anytime somebody is like underserved um they’re going to be more starving for the product so and you know me me being
black my wife is black um I know many black people I’m going to to that’s kind of crazy but um you know I’m gonna understand um like how to you know um what images might be good that people might like that that I’ve seen and so I just started really small you know initially
um there was some coloring books Source codes um I bought one I got some um stock images that weren’t the greatest and essentially I was just trying to see hey is this something that people are going to want to do and and you know we did spruce up the UI um and got some night I always try to have like a nice nice icon a nice UI even if it’s really simple that that doesn’t cost much but it makes a really big difference in terms of how people perceive it
um and the images that you see on it right now are not what we started with um there were a lot simpler a lot less depth but um it still resonated with people right um people were coming into the Facebook group people were reviewing it people were liking it so that convinced me okay um I can create something better so essentially I’ve updated this thing probably hundreds of times by now over four years
um and you know sometimes it’s about um testing pricing sometimes it’s about trying to improve the the interface a little better uh people have I conduct surveys in the app so I forget at what point the survey pops up but yeah um it will ask people like four questions and then maybe have two more that are a little bit more open where they can talk about benefits and um give critical feedback and so you know people
have requested like more colors um we want images of of more fat people we need Gram I’m serious like they’re people like hey like you need to have you need to represent fat people I’m like oh that’s that’s a great point you know black people you know like you have everybody we need the fat people we need the skinny people we need um you know we just want to represent um anybody who might want to use the coloring book or you know represent people in their family or people wanted
people doing different kinds of jobs right like right we want to see policemen in fire okay cool um but yeah we’ve just been able to update it so many times and I think that that’s part of what helps it to um to be successful I love it I know you said focus on your paying customers yeah yeah so I I and I guess that’s always going to be a balance because you know um you know I’ve heard you on this
podcast talk about using the hard paywall sometimes to to make sure um like hey you guys want it pay right um so I I think you know it kind of depends on what kind of person you are or how you approach this stuff but I think for a lot of us we’ll want to make sure that everybody really likes our app you know whether they’re never giving you a dollar or or anything right and um you know you’ve talked about how people will be nervous to show a paywall and
that it’s going to hurt your hurt people’s feelings and you know they’re going to leave bad reviews and and all of this stuff um and I think we overstate that stuff like some people will just bounce I think anytime you introduce a pay well you will get less traffic less virality um and that kind of is what it is but um like just because somebody on Instagram comes and says hey this app wasn’t free right that doesn’t mean you need to change your entire business strategy and never charge for anything
right there are people you know people there are other people using the same app and they’re like hey I paid in and I love it you know I love this app um and for me I feel like it makes more sense to listen to those people a little bit more than you know somebody who’s never going to use it like they’re just gonna complain they’re never going to use your thing um and they’re just gonna say hey it’s not free that’s my critique you know
um and it’s not that they’re a bad person but it’s just like you’re not going to be able to keep going if you don’t make some money on this thing like you can’t even provide this thing for the people I mean I guess maybe if you’re you’re Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos you don’t have that problem but um you need to make sure that it’s actually it actually makes business sense it actually brings money in um it doesn’t mean like I still try to provide lots of stuff for people lots of free stuff yeah I I but people people will
still complain like yeah I try to make it so that they can have a great time and maybe they’ll monetize through ads maybe they won’t but um yeah you know at a certain point I I do want people to subscribe and pay and um there’s nothing wrong with that like this America you know um I’m not gonna show up to your job and be like hey you’re not getting paid this month um but I still want you to clean my teeth right so
um yeah that’s that’s all I mean um I just don’t want to over emphasize uh people who are upset because they’ve been trained by Mark Zuckerberg that everything should be free right I love it well Kishore says app Graphics are very beautiful I appreciate it man have you tested like locking up more content versus not locking up more content I I have I have at certain times and you know um because it looks like there’s a lot yeah
I don’t think that I don’t think that this is like strictly optimized for um a cash return it does quite well in terms of you know when I um when I put money into ads um you know significantly more comes out and that that’s also why I need to push it um harder but yeah I think I could definitely lock more stuff I have at times um so yeah I I play with it I play with it sorry go ahead well I noticed that you
removed the trials now that I’m using the app like oh yeah I was listening to this podcast called app Masters and it was either yours or it was um there’s another I think um there’s a few I listened to it’s like three or four um and somebody was talking about um doing if you give away a lot of content maybe it was yours it was gonna kill all the content what’s that I’ll take credit bro we
didn’t talk about this yes so you know using more of a freemium approach rather than um doing a free trial but I still like having that that free trial um for the the first you know when people initially come into the app so I kind of tried to do a blend between them uh no I think this is a perfect blend we’ve been talking about it there was somebody at you know sub Club I think that’s the revenue cat one but they were I I think we’re listening to the same episode and
they were talking about he was the CEO of healthy I think we got like yeah yeah and he was talking about no trials I’m like no I don’t think that’s the case I think you’d need a trial but we had a case study that we published earlier where we talked about this app developer Indie app developer in our community he’s like he removed the trial after the onboarding because you have so much free content it’s like you’re either in or you’re out it’s it’s a trial already like yeah you can see what you can see what you can do that you can color like so many things so
um I think here’s what you know if I can give you um here’s what I’ve learned from others too that you know in lieu of a hard paint wall locking up more content and My Buddy Rich he tested this and he’s like lock content is starting to be like pretty similar like more law content and maybe here you’re giving it you can have like you know image of the day being the free one yeah everything else is locked I mean I would play around I think it’s
always worth trying and that’s definitely you know that’s definitely one thing that I’ve learned like just if you make a change and then it like starts to tank things you just change it back the only thing there is you just have to keep good records of what you’re actually doing because sometimes you know I definitely forget and then I find myself after like look at the charts and look at the revenue on this day and then look at my chat with the developer what was I saying to make so you do want to keep a good Journal of um the changes that
you’re making but you can always change back if it doesn’t work out I love it George says Hey guys in order to have a trial in the onboarding but no trial afterwards do we need to set up different in-app purchases yeah yeah you do so there’s just two different skus but like to the user they’re the same thing kind of um but yeah Ricardo’s like can’t please everyone amen Aiden says what marketing did you do paid free combination yeah so it’s it’s definitely a company I try to you know stack as
much as I possibly can so initially um I was just buying some a little bit of Facebook ads and then I would just try to you know make my money back I was also initially I I would also promote a lot on Instagram and I had a Facebook group and I kind of got things going that way um I also did some like paid Instagram shout outs that was okay sometimes um really good a couple times but often
I didn’t often it didn’t do that great then I just figured like one day I had done a pretty big um Instagram post promotion this page that has uh they they have a they have a ton of traffic um maybe over 10 million um 10 million followers wow um so I paid a few grand for it and it was mediocre to me and then I figured okay I can just take that rather than doing that I can take it to Facebook where I have a little bit more control
um and just spread that money over you know a few weeks or a month so um yeah I’ve essentially tried I tried Tick Tock as well that that worked okay but um I feel like Facebook is easier when you’re starting out um so right now I’m using primarily Facebook and Instagram ads on it that’s working well so I’m gonna try to scale that to you know whatever the limit is for me
um and before I think about any other paid platforms what attribution platform are you using because we’re having difficulties getting the revenue numbers yeah getting connected and I won’t say which attribution but like which one are you using like all this stuff it just gets to be so much more complicated than I think it should be I agree but um what’s that agreed I’m like are you are you me but but um I use Revenue cat
um I’m not sure whether you probably don’t consider the attribution um but I don’t have do I have no I don’t have like a just or apps flyer in this particular app um so I just have Revenue cat and then I’m using I also have um what do you call it um not mix panel what’s the amplitude I have amplitude in there for some that’s pretty useful to do a bunch of like be able to look at retention be able to look at like um subscribers and just break you know
slice things a bunch of different ways so I I I like using that but um yeah I think I I look at Revenue cap most often you can’t really attribute like to where it’s coming from like you know or or if you can you know you let me know but um it’s good enough for me because I right now I’m really only spending on one platform so it’s either coming from organic or from my spend and I I can kind of see how things vary as I spend more so I like it how are you using
because I felt like Facebook you need an attribution how are you running ads are you running like app promotion ads how are you running ads on Facebook without actually well I I have a face I have the Facebook pixel installed if that’s what you mean okay and that’s enough yeah as long as you have that you can you can run Facebook ads um okay you can get more I guess you can get more um detail and like more real-time information if you um if you install an Mmp I just kind of
find it to be painful yeah um it is and I guess like things have gotten more open more and more opaque with Facebook you know um especially as apple is ramped up their ATT stuff you just you know you spend the money and you don’t really see exactly what’s happening on the Facebook dashboard but it kind of gives you directional information and then between that and um Revenue Cad and then looking
at your stuff in apple you you piece it together and so it’s really not a perfect system and I don’t think like any of the any of the pros I think they would definitely have an MMP in but for me um yeah just having Revenue cat has has mostly been enough I know they’re you know I’ve heard many multiple ways to run Facebook ads a past guest of mine story book he was using his wife’s personal page to run out and that was seeing better performance have
you found what have you found to be one of the more better performing ways of running Facebook ads got it got it yeah I I run them all off of our um I run them off of the app’s own page so you know people will see the the apps icon there um and it works pretty well um so what the creatives that I’m running right now are like Tick Tock style um videos like short videos yeah I went on a platform called billow
um and just had a couple people it’s b-i-l-l-o um and they have like video creators who will just make videos for you you can tell them 15 30 60 seconds you can give them a script or just have them create the script and you know just give them a general idea of what you’re looking for um so I had a couple of them create stuff for me and this was kind of inspired by Darius Mora uh formerly of uh what’s
that journaling you know reflect exactly yep yeah yeah so you know he used to have the whole operation there where they would just get reach out to folks on Tick Tock all day I tried that a little bit wasn’t getting enough responses I was like you know what effort I will just pay for it for convenience and so this probably costs a little bit more I think they charge it’s eighty or a hundred dollars or something I don’t know um but
um yeah they they make the the video and I just run those I don’t I pretty much don’t Target anymore I just do pro targeting and then allow the creative to do the work and that seems to work seems to work pretty well um but you know once in a while I’ll try different things I definitely you know have used like look-alike audiences and that’s worked well um it seems to me like basically anything can work pretty well on Facebook as long as the creative
um is decent and but by decent I just mean that it resonates with the audience you know just like just like social content what you don’t want it to be like too much like an ad um more like something that will tell a story in a way and and sometimes it can just be a picture that will tell a story yeah um I’ll actually see if I can share and add with you guys um why you do that the one thing I’d pop in my mind you know I’ve heard many
others and you know you’ll talk to any of these ad platforms they’ll say let the targeting whoops he dropped we’ll wait but one of the things I wanted to talk to him about was let the targeting figure out the automatic I I I uh I pressed the wrong button yeah I open the ad on our page that wasn’t so what do I want to talk about was how much spend did you need to put to let automatic targeting work because we’re
letting we’re running some ads for a client of ours on Tick Tock and you know they recommend it do automatic targeting so maybe my campaign structure was all messed up but we had one campaign and the one ad group was automatic targeting one ad group was more targeted interest-based targeting or demographic based targeting and we found like within the first month like first couple of weeks yo the interest space and demographic targeting my targeting was way outperforming the automatic targeting so I didn’t I was like you know is this just what the ad platforms are saying to
us just to get us to spend versus US targeting like have you what have you found works yeah um so for for me I definitely have my old numbers to compare so it is actually working um I don’t have to spend a lot to to to see it work because I always start with like on any new campaign unless I’m just confident I’ll start with like 5 10 20 bucks a day you know what I mean and just see like hey am I getting
conversions is it paying for itself type of thing um before before ramping it up and each each time I ramp up spend them I’m always looking at like okay have I gotten some type of uplift um in in terms of the results I’m getting back that that makes sense um or not and it’s not always exactly proportional you know after you get above a certain amount there’s definitely some degradation but I still
want to see I’m performing better than than I was before yeah I like it got a question from maruna what app platform do you use app love in admob or something else and do you use mediation um primarily I primarily use admob um we set up our own mediation um and probably be better to use one of these mediation platforms but you know I’ve just it hasn’t been a priority for
me but um yeah I definitely think that you can probably get the most the the best return by doing mediation and always serving like what’s going to give you the the optimal but um yes it’s been at my but I’ve also used Facebook I’ve also used app loving do you have you tested I mean actually here’s the question I want to ask what’s the revenue split between like ads because I feel like with my apps too I’m starting to think
like you know it’s always been subscription based but like no ads type of things yeah and I’m kind of thinking like ads is the right play and I’ll tell you why in a bit but what is your Revenue split between in-app purchases so I make significantly more from in-app purchases um Georgia for me it’s like it might be it’s probably somewhere between two to one three to one maybe a little bit more in favor of
um subscriptions but like what I like is that oftentimes the the ads will pay for the ad pay for my ad spend right so it’s it’s like I’m getting the opportunity to get in front of my customers for free or at least heavily subsidized right um so like you know if I’m spending say I’m spending 70 bucks today um probably you know at least 50 or 60 of that is is going to be paid for right
off top by advertising and then anything that’s happening with people subscribing is going to be um profit right so um I like that I like that I like that mentality dude yeah yeah and it’s not always going to work out that way um this is an app where you know um thanks to amplitude I can see that people are spending you know
um 10 14 18 minutes on average um in it and that problem just has to do with the the characteristics of this type of app right yeah um the people spend a lot of time in it so uh you know that that allows you to monetize them yeah and I think you know what you you tell me but I feel like ads also help you with your subscriptions in a way because it’s like a reminder that this is not there’s an OP a better option out there if you choose to
you know pay for it and especially for an app like this where the the spend time is going to be high like having that ad is a no-brainer yeah and it doesn’t even really bother you know what the person I’ve seen the other day I actually got a complaint somebody was like it’s in that Fest right I was like all right all right and then like paying a couple dollars we’re done whatever right but um but yeah you know it’s not like it’s ruining the user experience and then it
helps you to um pay pay for what you’re doing keep the business going so it’s like why not um I think there’s certain kinds of apps where it’s probably going to hurt the like say you know I don’t know say this was like um a sleeping or something right and then I have interstitials popping up and just uh you know Annoying you while you’re trying to go to sleep then maybe that’s not the best but if it’s not hurting the user experience
um too much um yeah why not I agree I love it all right Kishore asks why don’t why don’t you create Android application for what you have on iOS so I do have an Android application for this one um I don’t have for for all of them and I guess it just has to do with you know certain Dev teams are um good at certain things and uh if they can make me in an app that I want to make for a certain price um and this is the technology that they
do that’s not cross-platform you know that’s fine and I I know I’m prioritizing iOS anyway then you know um that’s fine I actually do quite a bit on Android right now but um you know sometimes I I need to work with other people in order to to accomplish that yeah man congrats look at this it’s awesome yeah yeah um yeah this is actually going to start getting I’m partnering with somebody who
may be helping me to to push this a lot more so the the one on iOS actually has a lot more downloads because but you know it’s because I promote it and it’s because I’m more confident that I can make a return on it but um there’s some folks that may help me do it on Android so we’ll see on the ad monetization side of things or just like subscription Revenue side of things what do you mean help you with things oh I mean help me in terms of like pushing I
got it use acquisition user acquisition and then doing a uh ref split George says Steve how do you feel about the 3-1 split moyo is getting I don’t know how to feel I like it yeah I I I don’t care what the split is I just want like the the three and the one to be multiplied by something bigger yeah just just increasing that and um you know I want to do that while keeping the the score
is high and like keeping people coming back um but yeah I I don’t know how you feel but I actually don’t care what this point is um it’s like money I guess it’s better to be honest it’s better um let me take that back so I I like having subscribers and the the primary number that I focus on these days when I look at my dashboard I just want to see my subscriber number increasing yeah
um because that’s like a durable form of Revenue and then it also shows me that hey these people like my product enough to pay for it um and continue to pay for it right and and that that also kind of leads me into another Point um you know for a long time I would make this decision that I don’t want to offer a Weekly subscription because I don’t want to buy a Weekly subscription I would never do that to me it seems crazy either like the minimum
unit of time I’m going to subscribe for it is um at least a month and that was a mistake because some people want to do that right um and it’s I guess what it is is that even if it’s um even if it’s more for the same amount of time it’s just a lower level of commitment at least I think this is the psychology yeah like for me this this weekly plan makes absolutely no sense I would never do it um but they’re people that do it and they’re people that stay on it for quite
a while so it’s kind of just taught me to like not try to decide for for people and just offer the options um you know this structure actually so this this is a structure that I’ve gotten from from looking at other apps in the category and just kind of like looking at um who’s doing the best revenue-wise especially compared to how many downloads they’re getting yeah um most people actually charge a lot more yearly I’ve tested that and it hasn’t worked too well in the past uh with with
my audience so you know sometimes just because um it works in another app it’s not going to be exactly the same for you but um yeah you you just have to to test stuff and don’t just make stuff just for you that’s number one rule of that marketing yeah just because you wouldn’t do it doesn’t mean the audience because people like people say I would never buy something on the onboarding Press yeah before I buy it yeah that’s you bro yeah
the data shows something exactly different and you can cost yourself a lot because so for me you know hypothetically if somebody were to stay on that um weekly plan yep for the year um that’s it’s worth 10 times what what a yearly person is here now what’s nice about the yearlys is it’s like a pop of cash and that can help to subsidize your ad spend um and you know a lot more of those
people are likely to stay on for longer than just a year so the different things you have to consider but um you know there are definitely people that you know get on the weekly plan stay on the weekly plan and and they’re actually you know there I guess there’s that um that stigma of hey you know people forgetting and just leaving it on but in Revenue cat I can see when they’re using the app and they’re people that come on all the time that they’re on the weekly plan and then I’ve also seen people
start on the weekly plan cancel the weekly plan and like get on the monthly or yearly which is more like something that I would probably do I I could never like if I was to use weekly it would be just because okay if I forget then I’ll only get charged six dollars um which I think is perfectly rational but right if I know I’m gonna keep this for long term then yeah I’m going to switch on to something more economical well we do have data that Jake Moore from superwall shared and I fully believe in it so I you know obviously I was looking for yeah it’s confirmation bias but I feel like two plans is better
than one I have definite data on that three plans rather than two and his concern was he’s like look Steve yes the conversion grades go up because I do feel like people want options but secondly you want to push people to the highest LTV plan right because LTV tends to go down when you have more options as well but right I’m gonna assume moyo and Jared asked this question that most people what’s the split between weekly monthly and yearly I’m gonna assume people are either buying the weekly or the yearly like nobody
like small percentages by a month yeah uh so um you would think so but more people buy the monthly than I would expect really um yeah it’s interesting but I do think it’s more weekly and yearly um it’s hard for me to give you exact numbers on what the split is because the weekly is newer for me but um I find that you always get the most um the most purchases on wherever the free trial is at yeah at least for me so
you know right now for me um yeah I get the most weekly and it’s good like people people stay like revenue is going up overall um I love it and it hasn’t heard anything in terms of like the um the the user the user reviews and and also because I used to have the free trial on the yearly yeah um because that’s that’s what I wanted people to to get that’s why I want to push people
it’s nice because the people who think like me will just go go right ahead and just buy the yearly they’ll be like you know rather than go on a free trial and then have that second friction Point again they’ll just buy it right and then they don’t have to make a decision again for another year yeah I like it okay George says we’ll speed up a little bit the reason I’m asking for the questions about pushing ads in the 3-1 split is he’s just wondering if I’m pushing ads enough and so George what I’ve experienced with
other clients is sometimes it’s a two to one split right and sometimes it’s a 101 split so I think it depends on the nature of the app I just like the ads and I think moyo perfectly like what I’m making I’m subsidizing it like the main Revenue model is going to be from subscription but what I’m making from the apps allows me to pay for ads on to drive more downloads I really like that philosophy and one trick moyo that you could even think about too is one of my favorite campaigns to run is an app advice campaign I’ve been running for 10 plus years but yeah the best way to run
this would be to put a remove ads if you’d like yeah as a non-consumable in-app purchase make that for free for a couple of days and then drive the downloads that way because one of the things that you might want to test in terms of the monetization plan would be maybe it’s like you know 3.99 to remove ads or 4.99 just to make it even and then it’s 5.99 a week or 29.99 per year and then you’re mixing it up so that
you’re almost pushing people so the remove ads is the decoy plan and you’re pushing people to either weekly or yearly which for you will have the highest LTV than a monthly yeah that’s just my assumption I’m I’m down to try it man I I have to to huddle with you yeah and I um yeah I’m I’m happy to try anything well not anything but a lot of things and then cynical says what do you guys think about having no trial no free trial for subscriptions cynical we talked about it I think the best
practice is definitely a trial during the onboarding I have some data that proves it works better during the onboarding but like moyo we are in the app already after onboarding maybe no more trials because you’re either in or out and then oil has so much free content it might not be useful afterwards anymore yeah I see that that thing keeps popping up I think I’m need to fix that but um no I’ve seen it like five times that’s great I see it a lot yeah I didn’t mean to like keyway your app live no that that’s cool I actually did see um I saw a review that mentioned
that the other day just one but I’m sitting now I’m seeing it myself so that’s cool so appreciate it you bet I’m on an older iPhone by the way yeah yeah for just FYI yeah but I I believe it’s an issue all right all right well let’s get into our app audit segment of the show and then we like to do that with a little bit of [Music] all right my friend you want to play for
dinner lunch yeah let’s let’s do it I like uh all right deal you want to go first or you want me to go first uh yeah let’s let’s play for a tomahawk what’s a tomahawk that’s the big uh the big steak oh all right I I don’t I’m a vegan but okay you got it oh you are uh well no so we can go to a vegan spot then yeah Tomahawk bro I got it I can eat fries it’s all good uh we’ll figure it out all right
so am I going first do you want to go first I’m trying to find I don’t have my all my I don’t have all my little sound drops so I’m gonna have to make them up as I go where are they used to have sound drops here but I guess it’s not okay I’ll go first Mario what do you why do scuba divers fall backwards out of the boat why are they fall backwards out of the boat how do they fall backwards out of the boat I have I I couldn’t tell you because if they fall forwards they’d still be in
the boat okay all right I don’t know I know I’m good ones all right you go my friend you lost me there but all right um why can’t iPhones be trusted why because they always Spill the Beans to Apple I don’t even think that’s a joke that’s
just true all right but M if you thought my joke was better put s if you oh but s if you thought my joke is better and put M and die you bow if you thought moyo’s joke was better and we’re playing for a tomahawk all right now if you want us to look at your app in the future live stream just go to appmasters.com audit at masters.com audit all right let me pull up the app right now and again it’s very hard to do this on one screen oh man struggling
all right here we go so we got this app right now I’ll pull it up great it’s a virtual Photoshop or photo shoot room all right well anything so let me pull up his questions real quick I meant to download that I didn’t do that oh where the hell is my notes all right let me pull up these notes real quick I have it right here yep got
this is the first one from Dimitri right is it Dimitri yeah that’s what they said in my uh oh yeah Dimitri says improving conversions to paying customer paying users that’s what Dimitri says all right well we can get into that but anything from the App Store presence that you want to highlight let me see class retro photo shoot um so I I know the I’m just working my way down I’m looking at the icon first
um I I feel like you know for the for the video category I don’t know I feel like this could be more eye-catching probably not the biggest deal in the world but um you know might might be something to play around with um well you saw something you saw an improvement by a b testing app icons right so you’re you’re white yeah Michaela one she beat you yeah yeah the uh I I think it’s always helpful to have
that um I think it’s probably less important than it used to be just because you know it used to be you only see the icon in the results now you see the the three screenshots I think it’s it’s screenshots look pretty cool um and it see let’s see what the copy is so create your virtual Studio control the camera remotely shoot photos and videos during your video call I’m wondering for this okay so scroll
back up one second I just want to see what is a virtual photo shoot I’m wondering like what are the top concerns of somebody trying to to do a virtual photo shoot so is this like is this like I’m an influencer type of thing um and I just want to use this rather than having to book a session and then like you know what are the top three to five things that are on my mind um that are going to make this compelling to me because I I’m not sure
if those copy points are hitting those notes like what do you think about that yeah I agree with you I think it’s kind of confusing who this app is for is it for professional photographers is it for people who want to be influencers in that end so I’m curious to see like is it a green screen is it like you’ve got filters and I’m able to like shoot better photos yeah I’m trying to figure out what the big benefit is yeah yeah and so I’m willing to
um you know I’m willing to just it might just be that I just don’t know enough you know maybe because I’m not the target person I don’t understand it the way I should but I was then these things would be more compelling to me um let’s see create your virtual I’m not sure those are the benefits um I like it is because I I feel like you want to have the things that are going to hook you right away
um and just make you excited about using the app I’m wondering also like how this Compares I’m assuming there must be some other virtual photo shoot apps out there so for me anytime I’m creating a new app I like to look at the the competition and what they have um and just like how are they promoting it especially if they’re doing extremely well getting a ton of downloads and revenue then you know I won’t even try
to think too much for myself initially I’ll just say Okay um this this messaging is great this paywall structure is great let’s just use that and then once we get up and running then we can try to innovate from there yeah I like it Dimitri I don’t know if you’re for I don’t know where your paywall is it’s one quickest easy way reason way to get more money show the paywall I can’t find it I think maybe you’re forcing me to sign up and then you’re going to show me the paywall so let’s see what happens here
definitely like kill your Revenue by a lot yeah yeah I still don’t see your paywall bro yeah like you gotta okay finally yeah stop burying this you’re burying this too farther down the funnel you actually it took me so long to find this and that’s only because I was looking for you Dimitri right I was looking out for you otherwise this is way too complicated I do like the pricing
structure here moyo like I like the monthly because it feels like more to B2B play like a Dropbox model and I know B2B from what I found is monthly has a pretty high or LTV and it just makes sense for B2B so like I don’t mind the monthly I just you got to show this Dimitri and I also found that you know play around with this because somebody said it didn’t work for them but usually what I found is show this paywall first before you force people to sign up I like the way you ask people to sign up because I could easily just swipe down
and close it out but after I swipe down you want to hit me with this paywall because I was able to use your app without any like signing up anyways so why force me like why not show the paywall like obviously I took taking a couple of pictures show the paywall definitely show your paywall like I guess he’s doing it right here I don’t like this app maybe Ad Pro features works but I would play around with this messaging here too this ad pro pro features we’ve been a b testing this with a client of ours too yeah I
actually didn’t know this that that was um I didn’t notice that that was like an opportunity to to pay for something I didn’t know me neither I’ve seen the high app and my eyes completely ignored the Ad Pro features thing um yeah if it were me I would just try a couple of onboarding screens two or three and then show the paywall um you know what I mean especially something like this I feel like somebody is coming with an intention you know
what I mean like they they want this thing so um they might be ready to pay for it right up front so so I mean getting getting your Zoolander on so so uh yeah this is what Ricardo is saying what was that picture that’s that’s for you Ricardo there you go right there’s your new screensaver or lock screen it’s a screensaver show my age bro uh cool let’s see waruna says got a question for you
what do you do you guys do you give users the opportunity to cancel I know it’s in Europe you do have a cancel button yeah and get a refund or is it possible to do in-app using Revenue cap um so we do do an app I imagine that right here I imagine that that’s the app open ad um yeah yeah but you can also uh yeah any activator free trial so yeah
right um I I I imagine that’s hooked into Revenue cut just because that’s how I’m processing payments um I didn’t you know talk about that with my developer but I’d imagine that’s the case but yeah you know um I I do offer that and I don’t think it really affects the cancellation rate at all but it’s nice to have actually um I probably would want to change the copy there so it says cancel free trial
and then I guess if you’re not on a free trial and it should be like um cancel subscription or whatever right right um I’ve seen another app do this I forget which app it was like cancel free trial it asks you why you’re canceling and then it’s like asks you like different questions and then you finally took them to the App Store I kind of like yeah yeah that’s actually um a good way to get some information yeah as well I I would guess not everybody’s going to fill that out but then some people might actually tell you
you know you might get some good like hey like none of your effing this and that works that’s that’s that’s good data yeah Victor says it might be a paywall that pops up after I run out of storage this is for Dimitri’s app agreed Victor but most people who buy buy during the onboarding process I’ve talked to so many different apps with like millions of downloads to like just a handful it’s just you got to show your paywall sooner and so I get it but and here’s the what I always say when I hear a question like this what percent of
your users max out the free space and then they’re like well it’s like it’s a small percentage okay spoiler alert’s a small percentage I’m short on time I’m gonna speed up a little bit oh Samuel gave me the S round one um this is terrible I have to do I do this week in week out so yeah it’s kind of hard it’s kind of hard to beat the goat here all right Mario round two baby you want to go first or you want me to go first you you go first again because I gotta find hopefully Romaine is not here
because he’s French but moyo why do French people eat snails let me know all right simple because they don’t like fast food there it is all right what you got all right so um why did the iPhone wear glasses
why because it lost all its contacts yeah I love it okay that’s a good one so put M for more put s for Steve and then we’ll move on to sarvin’s app right here he says I want to get to 1 000 daily downloads well good luck my friend it is gonna be a hard road ahead for you marketing exactly my friend that’s a short answer move let’s go to the next
one Let’s help him out let’s bring up his app here so photo to video maker with song I mean I’ll start off my oil and then you can jump in the easiest way to get to 1000 daily downloads moyo said it too you gotta have to pay for them I think it’s very hard just to do it with just organic these days and what you can do is just you know if you want to get to a thousand Focus maybe because you’re Made in India maybe focus on these type of markets where the cost per install is
not going to be that low so you’re not breaking your you know the bang for your you’re not you know you can not exhausting your ad budget but you can like in India and Brazil emerging market we’ve been able to get like three cents five cents per download and so that’s a way to start helping your Organics go too yeah um I I definitely it’s probably going to be paid um but I guess you want to also make sure you’re maxing out your your ASO you know you’re doing
everything right with the title there’s probably a lot of room for improvement here yeah um you know just just finding like every Edge that you can so that you at least have that organic base and then um every few weeks you’re going to want to like see how you’re ranking on on your top keywords and if you’re not if you’re not hitting you know let’s say in the top 10 top five on keywords you’re going after use that real estate for something else
um and you know try to try to start ranking in the top five in the top three um on multiple keywords and just keep on like stacking but yeah ultimately you’ll probably need to pay so you want to make sure that you’re monetizing efficiently and you can you can kind of like sustain that but you know I guess I would ask the question I should have started with like why you know what’s the reason for a thousand down because you can easily get a thousand downloads you know it’s just
yeah it’s gonna cost you so like yeah you know for me like I actually I used to care a lot more about the download numbers because I wasn’t paying for anything back then um and so I would know that hey for this amount of downloads I’m gonna make this much revenue based on historicals but um now as things have evolved um I more so look at you know what am I going to make from my my average user and like how much can I
afford to put into acquiring them and like how if that’s the relationship you know let’s say I’m making um two to one or I’m making three to one you know how how long does that relationship continue how long does that scale and as long as it does I will buy a million down you know if I’m able to but um it takes time to skill because uh you know as you increase spend things might
change in in the way that in the quality of the people that you’re receiving back or you know maybe initially you’re getting all of the best prospects for your app but later on um they’re not as good a fit so you’re not going to monetize them as well um I know you’re showing them so let me stop there it’s all good my friend all right well one thing I do want to say just from an ASO standpoint bring back his app I do like this status maker so like lean in whatever like moyo said whatever keyword you find that is the most effective you’re gonna have to run
some ads what we found with one of our bigger clients is that ads do help with the ASO and even when you know they were like how come it’s not growing as fast because they’re like we spent 100 000 you know 100 2x more budget we’re driving 200 300 000 downloads a month in the US how come the ASO isn’t you know getting 100 percent but I told them like when you cut the spin look at when you cut the spin by 50 the ASO still went up by 20 like app store search downloads so you’re gonna have to play around with that but I
agree with Mario like why do you even try to get to instead of saying I want to get to 1 000 daily downloads get to 1 000 monthly revenues or 10 000 monthly revenues that’s way more important because in the end downloads just aren’t gonna matter that’s not gonna how you’re gonna make your living with downloads you’re going to make your living through Revenue yeah you can pretty much get as many downloads as you want but it’s just about getting them in a in a sustainable way and look here’s what I would say too when I’m in the app itself like it says
jingle bits and I had to like I did a double take I was like uh is this the right app am I about to open the right up like I totally forgot that it was called so like you you have photo to video everywhere why not just lead with photo to video and you’re calling it jingle bits I never saw jingle bits anywhere when I downloaded the app it made me confused like did just does this spam me so play around with that too like don’t call it jingle bits because there’s nowhere jingle bits nowhere to be found uh there it goes again jingle
bits who is this jingle bits maybe that’s the initial brand name I’m guessing he might have changed things around um you know maybe you started off calling it jingle bit something and then try to up more for ASO but then didn’t change the the icon and Etc so it could be that I’m just not connected something’s wrong with the Internet here for some reason so could be that I’m not yeah for some reason I can’t connect my
Android to the Internet so I can’t see the paywall but that’s the first thing I would look at we are trying to help more Android clients smile with paywall optimization because I’ve got a lot of case studies on the iOS side but I want more on the Android side so but I’m sorry I can’t look at your paywall just the hotel Internet it’s the Android I blame Android iPhone I’ll get on internet just fine Android I have no idea how to get on this internet same freaking Network too so I wish I could give you more feedback give me or what’s I forgot Selvin suvin
something like that I forget the name so reach out to me and then I’ll help you out with your monetization as well all right Moyle sarvan sarvin okay well anything I missed that you want to talk about Before We Say Goodbye just I’m saying I got killed again on the the jokes Romaine is here Romaine I am thinking about you my friend and he says I do eat snails so that’s great but he probably agrees French people do not like but we
down up ramuna loves you moyo Steve got a good one Victor Romaine so sorry yo me we’ll still do the t t Hawk but you know I gotta find some vegan options like make this a big potato somewhere around there no no but I I I I say we go to uh we go to a vegan place um and uh you know the food um it’s generally pretty good when when it’s uh not vegan food is cool like when they have the restaurants I agree yeah so
um I I I’m down let me know all right well go check out moyo’s apps oops let me bring up the right screen again this makes it a little bit difficult but I did not want to miss and reschedule the stream anymore so if you go boy which one do you want color Noir is the one or which one you want them to check out the um the AI art generator or right there yeah so AI headshot art generator right here boy I love it you’re like always up
to date with the latest themes you know realizing what worked back in 2011 2013 time frame bringing it into this age so go out go check out just search for headshot AI art generator in the App Store and you’ll find moyo’s apps in there and boyo if the audience wants to connect with you in any other way do you want to send them anywhere else um yeah you can hit me up on LinkedIn that’s that’s always a great place cool some oils LinkedIn profile is linked up into your favorite podcast app YouTube description wherever you consume your
media well any parting words before we say goodbye um it’s been a good time man you can get a brush up on the dad joke game huh yeah I do I do I actually um it’s not my fault it’s uh chat GPT I use my app I love it well next week we got a good one for you guys we’ve got Josh a friend of mine enderberg who’s gonna he he’s one of the founders of the miracle morning app he didn’t write the book but he’s working with how it’s a great book
Miracle morning he built the app based off the book to really help people and we’re gonna learn how he’s been leveraging different authors with popular books now he’s built this app and then a lot of paywall optimization so it’s gonna be a good one every Friday 9 A.M Pacific if you’re on the East Coast 12 p.m like I am right now thank you guys for joining moyo thank you so much for coming on doing this my friend thank you thank you it’s been been a bless I don’t know what this means alert like come oh I don’t know man well thank you guys
have a great weekend and I’ll see you guys next week